just back from the game

[Gunga Din]

i have been having a right old moan on here recently about how we have been playing, and how far off a title challenge we are, and today, to me, ratified all those negatives. we were at home, and Arsenalpassed us off the park, they were quicker, slicker, and had more purpose than we have had in a long time. to be honest that Arsenal team plays the game like Kennys side of 88.

 

the scariest thing for me is that we are nowhere near that level, not even close. last six home games. one win. says all you need to know. our third league game from 5 at Anfield were we have taken the lead and not won.

 

and if someone on here wants to come on and try and explain why Kuyt and Voronin were playing in wide positions when neither of them have any pace, yet we have someone we paid huge money for in Babel, not in the side, then i'd love to hear your opinion. in 3 and a bit years, and a lot of millions of pounds later, that side we have now is no better than the side Houllier left. our Keeper is better, but as a starting 11, and as a unit of players, we are no better, no nearer to a title challenge, and if people want to come on and say they arehappy with how we are playing and progressing as a side, then i'd say that you are happy with mediocrity and finishing in the top 4.

 

Arsenal play wonderful football, are an absolute joy to watch,and are streets ahead of us in terms of team, technique, and dare i say it, tacticaly. i only wish i could say that about us. Arsenal pass to feet, they pass and move, they pass forwards. we piss about the back, pass it along a back line, then either hoof it forward or pass it back to Reina who hoofs it forward.

 

In Rafa we trust? i'm not sure i trust Rafa anymore. i want more than anything for us to win the league, i seriously doubt we will do that with Rafa in charge.

[Guest Ant]

i have been having a right old moan on here recently about how we have been playing, and how far off a title challenge we are, and today, to me, ratified all those negatives. we were at home, and Arsenalpassed us off the park, they were quicker, slicker, and had more purpose than we have had in a long time. to be honest that Arsenal team plays the game like Kennys side of 88.

 

the scariest thing for me is that we are nowhere near that level, not even close. last six home games. one win. says all you need to know. our third league game from 5 at Anfield were we have taken the lead and not won.

 

and if someone on here wants to come on and try and explain why Kuyt and Voronin were playing in wide positions when neither of them have any pace, yet we have someone we paid huge money for in Babel, not in the side, then i'd love to hear your opinion. in 3 and a bit years, and a lot of millions of pounds later, that side we have now is no better than the side Houllier left. our Keeper is better, but as a starting 11, and as a unit of players, we are no better, no nearer to a title challenge, and if people want to come on and say they arehappy with how we are playing and progressing as a side, then i'd say that you are happy with mediocrity and finishing in the top 4.

 

Arsenal play wonderful football, are an absolute joy to watch,and are streets ahead of us in terms of team, technique, and dare i say it, tacticaly. i only wish i could say that about us. Arsenal pass to feet, they pass and move, they pass forwards. we piss about the back, pass it along a back line, then either hoof it forward or pass it back to Reina who hoofs it forward.

 

In Rafa we trust? i'm not sure i trust Rafa anymore. i want more than anything for us to win the league, i seriously doubt we will do that with Rafa in charge.

 

100% Agree as always

 

Beware mind, you'll probably get slated for caring about your team...

Edited October 28, 2007 by Ant

[Coyler]

our Keeper is better, but as a starting 11, and as a unit of players, we are no better, no nearer to a title challenge, and if people want to come on and say they arehappy with how we are playing and progressing as a side, then i'd say that you are happy with mediocrity and finishing in the top 4.

What performances this season are you basing that on? We have hardly seen the new players, the putative 'improvements' plugged into last year's top-4 team.

[Falconhoof]

Agree with you Wayne.

The gulf in class and approach to the game between us and Arsenal is what saddens me most. People say, ah well look at the commitment and workrate of our players but thats the minimum. You couldn't fault the work and running of Arsenal's players either but they have a clue what to do with the ball.

[Gunga Din]

What performances this season are you basing that on? We have hardly seen the new players, the putative 'improvements' plugged into last year's top-4 team.

 

this season, last season, the season before, this team is no nearer to a title challenge that it was under Houllier. we struggle to string 3 passes together. look at Arsenal. Look at us. a gulf in class. its embarrassing. how anyone cant see that is beyond me

[Gunga Din]

Agree with you Wayne.

The gulf in class and approach to the game between us and Arsenal is what saddens me most. People say, ah well look at the commitment and workrate of our players but thats the minimum. You couldn't fault the work and running of Arsenal's players either but they have a clue what to do with the ball.

in a nutshell. Arsenal perform like that EVERY WEEK. the similarity in that side and ours in 88 is unreal. fast, attarctive free flowing football every game. we stop them eating us, and lets be honest, they should have won that game, and people are saying we did well. well, i'm sorry, but at Liverpool our standards should be set higher than that.people are settling for mediocrity,and thats simply not good enough.

[Coyler]

this season, last season, the season before, this team is no nearer to a title challenge that it was under Houllier. we struggle to string 3 passes together. look at Arsenal. Look at us. a gulf in class. its embarrassing. how anyone cant see that is beyond me

Sure, they play fecking amazing football. When we were on rolls the last few years we've played some good stuff but no-one's touched Arsenal for style in the last few years.

 

And this Arsenal have won shag-all.

[RafaShanks]

but they have a clue what to do with the ball.

 

That is the sad truth unfortunately.

[Earl Hafler]

i have been having a right old moan on here recently about how we have been playing, and how far off a title challenge we are, and today, to me, ratified all those negatives. we were at home, and Arsenalpassed us off the park, they were quicker, slicker, and had more purpose than we have had in a long time. to be honest that Arsenal team plays the game like Kennys side of 88.

 

the scariest thing for me is that we are nowhere near that level, not even close. last six home games. one win. says all you need to know. our third league game from 5 at Anfield were we have taken the lead and not won.

 

and if someone on here wants to come on and try and explain why Kuyt and Voronin were playing in wide positions when neither of them have any pace, yet we have someone we paid huge money for in Babel, not in the side, then i'd love to hear your opinion. in 3 and a bit years, and a lot of millions of pounds later, that side we have now is no better than the side Houllier left. our Keeper is better, but as a starting 11, and as a unit of players, we are no better, no nearer to a title challenge, and if people want to come on and say they arehappy with how we are playing and progressing as a side, then i'd say that you are happy with mediocrity and finishing in the top 4.

 

Arsenal play wonderful football, are an absolute joy to watch,and are streets ahead of us in terms of team, technique, and dare i say it, tacticaly. i only wish i could say that about us. Arsenal pass to feet, they pass and move, they pass forwards. we piss about the back, pass it along a back line, then either hoof it forward or pass it back to Reina who hoofs it forward.

 

In Rafa we trust? i'm not sure i trust Rafa anymore. i want more than anything for us to win the league, i seriously doubt we will do that with Rafa in charge.

 

Good post, Wayne, although much of it you've posted in previous weeks and unfortunately i don't think it will be the last time.

 

I was told that Wenger has his players playing one touch pass and move on shortened pitches.

We look like we practice over a river because some of our players seem incapable of playing it on the ground. Too many passes which are nowhere fecking near a red shirt.

 

Rafa's won titles and cups so i think it's too early to write him off but he appears obsessed with the opposition to the point where it adversely affects his selection of the team. Constant changes in formation and personnel. Playing players out of position when signings for those positions remain on the bench.

[Guest Ant]

this season, last season, the season before, this team is no nearer to a title challenge that it was under Houllier. we struggle to string 3 passes together. look at Arsenal. Look at us. a gulf in class. its embarrassing. how anyone cant see that is beyond me

 

It's incredible to think that they are still playing on that level post Henry, Ljunberg, Pires and Viera

 

We have already Jeopardised our league season, a draw would of been a good result if we had beaten Birmingham and Spurs, but we didn't.

 

Forgive me if I'm wrong but are champions supposed to be winning games at home?

[Gunga Din]

Sure, they play fecking amazing football. When we were on rolls the last few years we've played some good stuff but no-one's touched Arsenal for style in the last few years.

 

And this Arsenal have won shag-all.

 

this arsenal side is young and improving. yes, in fits and starts we play decent football, but we are nowhere near Arsenals standard at the minute, and havent been in a long time. i'm actually starting to thing we are going backwards in terms of evolving as a team.

[stressederic]

Arsenal, like United are reaping the benefits of having a long-term manager.

 

Wenger has every one of Arsenal's teams, whether it be the main team or the under-12's playing that brand of football, it's totally disseminated throughout the club. When you've been the manager for 10 years you can do that.

Edited October 28, 2007 by stressederic

[Mascherano]

We were outclassed and given a footballing masterclass. We got a point yes, but they exposed numerous weaknesses.

 

I disagree with you Wayne, in that I do think that the squad is better now than under Ged, I just think that we are playing the wrong players, in some cases in addition to the fact that we are too negative. Voronin, Kuyt, Hyypia and Riise are never going to win a league title. All due respect to Sami, but his best days are behind him.

 

The hoofing and the first touches that are clearances break things down and causes problems over and above the negative tactics.

 

One of the things that I initially loved about Rafa was the fact that we started to play football after what Houllier served up, but we are regressing towards that hoofing style again.

 

"HOOF!"

[RafaShanks]

Forgive me if I'm wrong but are champions supposed to be winning games at home?

 

Slightly digressing and correct me if I'm wrong, but we haven't won at Mancs, Chelsea or Arsenal under Rafa?

[Gunga Din]

Arsenal, like United are reaping the benefits of having a long-term manager.

 

Wenger has every one of Arsenal's teams, whether it be the main team or the under-12's playing that brand of football, it's totally disseminated throughout the club. When you've been the manager for 10 years you can do that.

 

didnt Wenger win the double in his first full season? this is the third or fourth top class side he has built there in ten years.

 

he has broken up a team that went a season unbeaten, started again, and now looks to have built a team that could be even better than that, and he hasnt exactly spent bucket loads of money.

[kopsawyer]

i

In Rafa we trust? i'm not sure i trust Rafa anymore. i want more than anything for us to win the league, i seriously doubt we will do that with Rafa in charge.

 

I agree.This is rafas team,rafas tatics and its simply not good enough.We are to rigid.We have no movement he plays 2 strikers on the wings when we have two natural wingers siting on the bench.It really does remind me of houiller last days.It was just a matter of time before arsenal scored and they- as a team are lightyears ahead of us.

 

This is the first time ive doubted rafa.I just Hope we dont lose to blackburn next week.

Edited October 28, 2007 by kopsawyer

[Guest Kaizer]

Arsenal have 6 away games in their 9 next matches in the PL, lest see where they are after that run, they still have not won a game outside London.

 

The formation we played today did not suit us, we got too much space between our attacking players and this isolated them in a way, this was why our passing was so bad, playing Voronin and Kuyt out wide was a strange decision, especially Kuyt was piss poor and lost the ball most of the time, Voronin struggled a bit in the start but got better as the match went on.

 

I do not agree that Arsenal played fantastic football, we made it easy for them because of the formation since this gave them extra space and us difficult possibilities when we had the ball.

 

If Alonso had been on the pitch the full 90 minutes we would have won.

Edited October 28, 2007 by Kaizer

[Gunga Din]

We were outclassed and given a footballing masterclass. We got a point yes, but they exposed numerous weaknesses.

 

I disagree with you Wayne, in that I do think that the squad is better now than under Ged, I just think that we are playing the wrong players, in some cases in addition to the fact that we are too negative. Voronin, Kuyt, Hyypia and Riise are never going to win a league title. All due respect to Sami, but his best days are behind him.

 

The hoofing and the first touches that are clearances break things down and causes problems over and above the negative tactics.

 

One of the things that I initially loved about Rafa was the fact that we started to play football after what Houllier served up, but we are regressing towards that hoofing style again.

 

"HOOF!"

 

 

we might have a better squad, better depth than when Houllier had the team, but as for best starting 11? i dont think its better, like i said, keeper aside, and certainly any improvements have been tiny compared to the money thrown at it

[Coyler]

this arsenal side is young and improving. yes, in fits and starts we play decent football, but we are nowhere near Arsenals standard at the minute, and havent been in a long time. i'm actually starting to thing we are going backwards in terms of evolving as a team.

If Arsenal keep the 'Arsenal standard' up all season then fair f***s. It's a pretty unique way to win a league, though, playing like that (.i. the Arsenal ideal, the best that Arsenal can play) the whole time. They didn't even play 'like that' all match against us to-day.

 

You want your team to be fit and firing, not necessarily fancy.

[Gunga Din]

Arsenal have 6 away games in their 9 next matches in the PL, lest see where they are after that run, they still have not won a game outside London.

 

The formation we played today did not suit us, we got too much space between our attacking players and this isolated them in a way, this was why our passing was so bad, playing Voronin and Kuyt out wide was a strange decision, especially Kuyt was piss poor and lost the ball most of the time, Voronin struggled a bit in the start but got better as the match went on.

 

I do not agree that Arsenal played fantastic football, we made it easy for them because of the formation since this gave them extra space and us difficult possibilities when we had the ball.

 

If Alonso had been on the pitch the full 90 minutes we would have won.

 

 

doesnt matter what Arsenal do the next 9 games, because quitefrankly, we wont catch them, and we wont catch the MAncs either. teh reason? we are playing s****.

 

Arsenal played great football today.

 

Alonso was poor when he was on the pitch.

 

so, to summerise, i disagree with your entire post

[hideNseek]

It is the best squad we've had in donkeys years, just not being used correctly for some strange reason.

[Guest Ant]

It is the best squad we've had in donkeys years, just not being used correctly for some strange reason.

 

I agree, we have the squad to win the league but it's not being implemented properly...

 

It's damn fustrating

[Gunga Din]

If Arsenal keep the 'Arsenal standard' up all season then fair f***s. It's a pretty unique way to win a league, though, playing like that (.i. the Arsenal ideal, the best that Arsenal can play) the whole time. They didn't even play 'like that' all match against us to-day.

 

You want your team to be fit and firing, not necessarily fancy.

 

go and have a look at Arsenals games this season. they are an amazing side,playing amazing football. the only negative i can say about Arsenal is they try to walk it into the net too much instead of shooting.

[Earl Hafler]

Arsenal, like United are reaping the benefits of having a long-term manager.

 

Wenger has every one of Arsenal's teams, whether it be the main team or the under-12's playing that brand of football, it's totally disseminated throughout the club. When you've been the manager for 10 years you can do that.

 

I think that argument can be used for Ferguson but not Wenger, who had them winning the double playing good football 2 years after he arrived. He built on their defence and introduced quick, skillful players.

 

There were similarities between Vieira and Momo when they were both introduced to the league but Vieira had a touch of class about him and this was polished. Momo is a raw battler who has trouble stringing a few passes together and hasn't improved much since we signed him. I think Gerrard's showed signs of stagnating in the last 18 months. Rafa has spent big this summer and barely used those players or given them a run in the side and allowed them to play into form and grow accustomed to the league.

 

We've gone backwards since the start of the season but there's been little improvement in playing style in 3 years.

 

I'm Liverpool through and through but i hear friends comment when they watch us play and, objectively, i have to agree. Most of the time we're pretty poor to watch or at least some way behind the top 2 sides. As i've said before, those managers have been building their current forward lines for a couple of seasons now but when using that argument, i was hoping to see Rafa set his team up and nurture it into a title winning side. For the first time since Rafa came here i'm baffled as to his decisions.

£20m on Babel, Benayoun and Lucas and they hardly feature, certainly with any consistency.

[stressederic]

didnt Wenger win the double in his first full season? this is the third or fourth top class side he has built there in ten years.

 

he has broken up a team that went a season unbeaten, started again, and now looks to have built a team that could be even better than that, and he hasnt exactly spent bucket loads of money.

 

Yeah he did in his first full season. I wasn't really making a comment about Rafa, more to do with how that type of longterm stability can bring real benefits. Wenger is a terrific manager, and has essentially built an entire club around his philosophy. It'll be interesting to see what happens when he finally does leave, but that won't be for a few more years yet.