Thinking the unthinkable...

[alias75]

I want to start this by saying a fully focussed in form Steven Gerrard would get into any team in the world, when hes on form hes by far our most influential player, however what this team doesnt need is a Steven Gerrard that is going to sulk if he doesnt play in the middle, or is going to cause unrest with the manager.

 

You look how Arsenal have blossomed with the departure of their best player and biggest influence and you cant help but wonder if a similar thing would happen here if Stevie was sold or decided he wanted to try his luck overseas. you look at our better performances this season, Derby and Sunderland where gerrard didnt play and in those games albeit against poor teams there was much bigger contributions from many different players. Of course you can also point to games like Chelsea where Gerrard played well but the key question is, is Gerrards presence in the team restricting the other 10 players?

 

Of course Gerrard is going to have good games, hes our best player he should do but is he doing it often enough and overall are we better off with him or without him? The obvious first response would be of course you'd rather him in your team than not, but up until this season id have said the same about Henry and Arsenal but you look at how his leaving has positively affected them and cant help wonder.

 

I think it is clear when Stevie plays through the middle theres too much of an onus on him to do something, he tries too many killer passes and takes too much responsibility on himself, similarly the other players automatically look to him instead of taking responsibility themselves if Stevie isnt playing well and all our play goes through him the team wont play well.

 

Maybe a part solution is to play him wide right, im certainly in the school of thought that thinks he should play there, not only is it his most productive position (imo) but i also think we're a stronger TEAM with him out of the middle.

 

2 seasons ago the thought of Sevie leaving would fill me with dread, but i think we're quickly coming to the point where either Stevie goes or Rafa goes and in that scenario im sorry but Rafa is much more important. Reading between the lines you have to believe Rafa wouldn't be too worried if Stevie wanted to go, of course hes never going to say that because of Gerrards standing with the fans but im really starting to think Gerrards presence especially in the middle is holding us back, his game hasnt developed as much as it should by now, Fabregas whose only 20 is able to control a game from the middle in a way Gerrard simply cannot.

[Falconhoof]

Brave post. You'll be hammered for suggesting it. There might be some parallels with whats happened to Arsenal as a team by releasing Henry.

[Molby]

that's too drastic

 

in the games you mentioned we had Xabi, Agger in the team, so straight away we had a pattern and order in our play

 

then it all goes out the window and Gerrard has to suddenly prepare the play and find the explosive finishing touches

 

this is why I would have put him right, played Crouch, used Kuyt wide and simply powered us to victory until we could get the other two back

Edited October 25, 2007 by Molby

[Stevie H]

think he has a more consistent impact on a game from the right of midfield rather than the centre. he gives opponents more to think about from there.

[Guest RedIsMyColour]

The problem with Gerrard is that he cannot control the flow of the game from Central midfield like Alonso can. So when thats his role, he tends to hit 'hollywood' balls and tries to force the play. He is an all action hero type player, great for counter attacking football and there is no one better bursting onto balls.

 

When we play teams who sit back and have to open them up, Gerrard works against us because slow passing and build up is not his game.

 

Highly effective player but he's not being used correctly (I get the sense thats his own doing as much as Rafas)

[cymrococh]

  Steve H said:

think he has a more consistent impact on a game from the right of midfield rather than the centre. he gives opponents more to think about from there.

Totally agree.

[Hassony]

  Paul Caruso said:

Totally agree.

me too

 

he is too incosistant and too "hollywood" to play in central midfield

[John am Rhein]

Certainly I think Liverpool is better with Gerrard at RM. And, I'm increasingly thinking Gerrard himself is better there too.

 

Whether LFC would be better off without him, I don't think so. We could potentially use the money we'd get for him to buy one or two serious quality players, but there's no guarantee they'd be successful and we might not even be able to persuade the players we want to sign.

 

Swap Gerrard for Drogba!

[alias75]

  Graham said:

Brave post. You'll be hammered for suggesting it. There might be some parallels with whats happened to Arsenal as a team by releasing Henry.

 

I thought of that just after i hit submit

 

My problem is more with Stevies attitude, all this sulking about being subbed or going on the record as saying he wants to play in the middle if he was playing well you could excuse him but he isnt and you compare him with central midfielders that are much younger and hes miles behind in terms of bossing a game. Because we rely on him so much our performances rely on his form more than is healthy.

 

Looking at Arsenal how players like Hleb, Fabreas, Flamini, etc.. seem to have come on in leaps and bounds since Henry left, that cant be a coincidence, these big players with big personalities can be great when their playing well but they can also have a negative effect on their team mates.

 

Individually we'd be weaker without Stevie but as a TEAM i wonder (plus of course theres who we could sign if he did go )

[Woodsyla]

I posted about 2 years ago that Gerrard wasn't the best central midfielder in the World as he wasn't even the best central midfielder at the club. We miss Xabi because he makes us tick. Gerrard can't do it, Masch can't do it and Momo certainly can't. From the brief glimpse I've see Lucas might be able to but it's still early doors.

 

Anyway, to summise, our central midfield should be Alonso AND. If Rafa wants to play Stevie central, fine, if he wants to play Masch central then Stevie goes on the wing. Xabi has to play if we are to play that game that battered Chelsea and unpicked Derby by the seams.

 

When Xabi comes back so will our form, just watch and see.

[guernseygareth]

i too am of the rm opinion - gerrard is most potent in the final third of the pitch.

 

dropping back leads to too much mr hollywood passing rather than simple 'pass and move' worked openings.

 

he hasn't showed himself to be a leader on the pitch other than a 'look at me - play like i do' type.

 

interesting debate/row/flaming will undoubtedly follow....

[smicer07]

But.. but.. but.. I thought the media said he was better in the middle? Surely Andy Gray can't be wrong???

[R A Softlad]

  Steve H said:

think he has a more consistent impact on a game from the right of midfield rather than the centre. he gives opponents more to think about from there.

 

Couldn't agree more. I suggested he play on the right more often about 5 years ago and got laughed but I think him on the right with Masch and Zabi in the middle is the way forward.

[Florist Cinema Pond Goal]

  alias75 said:

but i think we're quickly coming to the point where either Stevie goes or Rafa goes

 

Agree with some, but not this bit.

[Stevie H]

  R A Softlad said:

Couldn't agree more. I suggested he play on the right more often about 5 years ago and got laughed but I think him on the right with Masch and Zabi in the middle is the way forward.

remember the treble season under GH when he played right mid a lot, he was tall and skinny and looked like a winger. seemed to take him a while to determine just what his favoured position was.

[fred milne]

  alias75 said:

You look how Arsenal have blossomed with the departure of their best player and biggest influence and you cant help but wonder if a similar thing would happen here if Stevie was sold or decided he wanted to try his luck overseas.

Its not really comparable. Arsenal had already had the best of Henry when they let him go. Gerrard should be entering his peak years now.

 

Both Gerrard and Carragher have been guilty at times of trying to do too much - Gerrard trying to win games by himself, Carragher trying defend by himself. Both need to trust their teammates more, which should be easier when our stronger players such as Agger, Alonso and Torres return.

[Guest Kaizer]

Gerrard has improved his game in the last two matches, but as soon as Alonso is back we should move him out right for the benefit of the team, we have average wingers at best, while we have great central midfielders so to get the best out of everybody we should play Gerrard on the right.

 

Gerrard does not have a negative influence on our game, thats just bulls***, and we will not be better off without him.

 

As a last resort play him at RB, he would be the worlds best player in that position.

Edited October 25, 2007 by Kaizer

[Bootle Buck]

Gerrard has been blown out of all proportion by the Media and those fans that never witnessed the many successful teams of the 60's, 70's and 80's. He got this Capt Fantastic label that he was carrying the whole team on his shoulders and in many games he did. However, whenever he has been out we have managed to do quite well without him. Stevie is horribly out of form right now yet he is still trying to hit those Hollywood balls and take every set peice. Maybe he needs a rest, or maybe Rafa needs to put an arm around the lad and settle him down a bit. Listening to the commentators in Liverpool games they only expect Liverpool to do anything when Gerrad has the ball and that pressure seems to be getting too him. He can't play out of his skin every game but a player of his quality should be able to raise his own game and be a big influence on his teammates. Right now he clearly isn't in the form to do so. When Liverpool reigned supreme for many years it wasn't because of one individual rather of great teamwork and players that complimented each other. Maybe Stevie and Rafa need to sit down and decide his role in the team and let him discover his own form rather than be the main catalyst for the team.

Edited October 25, 2007 by Bootle Buck

[honourablegeorge]

Gerrard hs many flaws, and the hype always grates, but I wouldn't consider selling him. He does need to accept that wide/free role though.

[Molby]

  R A Softlad said:

Couldn't agree more. I suggested he play on the right more often about 5 years ago and got laughed but I think him on the right with Masch and Zabi in the middle is the way forward.

 

 

actually I was the first to suggest it

 

but it's good that you were thinking it too

[shaq]

If Gerrard will happily play RM or off the striker, then we have one of the best players in the world in our team. If he is going to play there reluctantly, by which I mean if he's not going to put the same effort into that position as he would into CM, then for all his scouse heart, he doesn't care about LFC as much as he claims to/is claimed on his behalf. In which case give what's-his-face at Barca a goal and engineer a swap with Messi.

 

But, to re-iterate, I would still prefer to have Stevie at Liverpool more than I would Messi, Kaka or Ronaldhino IF he knuckles down and does exactly as Rafa tells him without being a mardy-a***.

[Guest JV]

Sell him already.

[Woodsyla]

  JV said:

Sell him already.

 

Just to end the speculation

[Kite]

Gerrard is a player that is very hard to accommodate in the team, especially with a 4-4-2 formation. He isn't a central midfielder, he just doesn't have the nous, consistency or discipline to play that role effectively. He isn't a wide midfielder given that he won't stay wide.... Where you want to see him is in that space between central midfield and forward line. Which isn't 4-4-2. Ironically Rafa came here convinced not to play 4-4-2 but has reverted to it. If 4-4-2 is what is needed to profit in the Premiership, then I don't know how Rafa can play Gerrard and get the most out of him.

[fred milne]

  Mr Kite said:

Gerrard is a player that is very hard to accommodate in the team, especially with a 4-4-2 formation.

He's probably more suited to the 4-3-3 formation Chelsea used under Mourinho but we don't have the wingers to make that work. Babel is too raw and Kewell too injury prone.