This is not about rotation

[David Hodgson]

..or at least the rotation issue is becoming something of a red herring. What we saw tonight, and saw similarly, to varying degrees, against Portsmouth, Porto, Birmingham and Wigan, was good players playing badly. That simple really. Rotation doesn't make them miscontrol simple balls, or give away possession as cheaply as we have.

 

Yep, it contributes to an unsettled team balance if miscalculated, but last night there was nothing wrong with the team Rafa sent out. It was just that they played sh*t, and have been, by and large, for weeks now. Something else is very wrong with the squad/team and it goes far beyond rotation, IMHO.

 

I don't know what it is, but Rafa has to sort it and sort it quickly. The buck must stop with him, and it is a genuinely worrying sign when a manager effectively throws his hands up and more or less says 'don't look at me, it's the players playing cr*p out there'.

 

It seems ludicrous to say he's under pressure to keep his job, given what he's achieved at the club, but this simply can't go on, and Rafa is in cricitcal phase of his Liverpool career. People can say 'let's apply some perspective', but we ain't Tottenham, who'll probably recover from their disasterous start to finish 6th or 7th. We're LFC, one of the top 5 or 6 clubs in the world. 3 bad games IS a crisis for us. It's not just tabloid hype, we can't afford bad runs if we want to win one of the big two prizes.

 

OK, there's a big case for calm right now, and let's see what happens, cos there's nothing wrong that 4 or 5 straight wins wouldn't sort out. It's just that that seems very unlikely.

[Knox_Harrington]

Sort of agree with all that but if rotation is the reason we sent out a Gerrard/Sissoko centre mid partnership and then did absolutely nothing to change it then it's a significant part.

 

We're missing Alonso like nothing you've ever seen.

[Stevie H]

since that international break the players have looked totally out of sorts. no drive, no motivation, no dynamism, which is why we were wondering last night just what impact pako's departure has had on morale. they just don't look the same bunch of driven, determined players who kicked the season off so well and looked like making a proper title challenge. every player is playing poorly and has no confidence at all, and the only person who can now get hold of this is rafa.

[Cunny]

He has to pick a settled side to allow us to play ourselves into some form.

Momo and Crouch were poor last night but how do they get any confidence playing once every 3 weeks?

[Stevie H]

We're missing Alonso like nothing you've ever seen.

enormously. suddenly got no shape to our game.

[Lee W]

The weekly rotation is playing it's part in my view. It's not the whole reason though granted - there are just some players who seem woefully short of form and confidence, which is worrying considering we're unbeaten in the League.

 

Need to give Spurs a good hiding on Sunday and restore some momentum and confidence.

Edited October 4, 2007 by Lee W

[Smith]

since that international break the players have looked totally out of sorts. no drive, no motivation, no dynamism, which is why we were wondering last night just what impact pako's departure has had on morale. they just don't look the same bunch of driven, determined players who kicked the season off so well and looked like making a proper title challenge. every player is playing poorly and has no confidence at all, and the only person who can now get hold of this is rafa.

 

All true. Whatever it is, it needs to be sorted. Now. What the f*ck could've happened that affects so many professionals this way?

[David Hodgson]

since that international break the players have looked totally out of sorts. no drive, no motivation, no dynamism, which is why we were wondering last night just what impact pako's departure has had on morale. they just don't look the same bunch of driven, determined players who kicked the season off so well and looked like making a proper title challenge. every player is playing poorly and has no confidence at all, and the only person who can now get hold of this is rafa.

 

Absolutely.

 

I haven't seen decent players suddenly play so badly since the 'spice boys' days. At least then you kinda knew why they could suddenly be so sh*t (cos they'd been on the ale the night before ).

 

I've thought the Pako theory too, but it just seems too easy to say it's down to him.

[honourablegeorge]

I was thinking Pako last night too - just the change in preparation, warm-ups, banter, spirit - Pako being the main link to the players - maybe it could have had an effect.

 

Rotation's deffo a red herring - and angry as I was about the performance, as soon as I heard Rafa post match with that Geoff Shreeves t***, I was right behind the manager again straight away. Media t***s.

 

he does need to find the problem fast though - this is like our usual crap start, except the crap start had a good start to it.

[John am Rhein]

All true. Whatever it is, it needs to be sorted. Now. What the f*ck could've happened that affects so many professionals this way?

 

Possible changes in the training regime due to the departure of this Pako Ayestaran is starting to look like the most plausible explanation.

Edited October 4, 2007 by John am Rhein

[McBain]

Disagree. He's rotated the entire squad out of form. Players get form by playing regularly and forming partnerships and gaining the confidence that good performances will see them continue in the side. Rotation takes all that away

 

Every player that played shyte last night needn't worry about their place in the team. They know they'll be back in soon

[Cunny]

Disagree. He's rotated the entire squad out of form. Players get form by playing regularly and forming partnerships and gaining the confidence that good performances will see them continue in the side. Rotation takes all that away

 

Every player that played shyte last night needn't worry about their place in the team. They know they'll be back in soon

 

NAIL. ON. HEAD.

[John am Rhein]

How's this for a possible explanation? (pure speculation, of course):

 

The rotation plan was part of a fitness/training plan developed and run primarily by Pako Ayestaran. With him now gone, Rafael Benitez is now running it himself and he isn't as good at it.

[Dan]

NAIL. ON. HEAD.

 

I dunno.

 

I can't see Momo or Leto anywhere near the first team for anything other than Carling Cup for a while tbh.

[Herbie von Smalls]

i'm beginning to wonder how we've gone from a team that looked capable of beating anybody, to a team that's struggling to even score since the international break.

 

i agree that rotation's not the issue, but drive and desire do appear to be lacking. i don't know if it's Pako's departure, that two-week break from premiership football or something else, but for the first time since he took over i'm beginning to wonder about Rafa's ability to fire up the team.

 

it seemed to me last night that maybe the players are being overburdened with tactics and executing them precisely, to the detriment of any intuitive football. any initiative seemed to be stifled until we went a goal down and then instinct appeared to kick in as we grabbed the game by the scruff of the neck. of course, with less than 15 minutes to go, it was all too late.

 

it just feels like we need to loosen up a bit and get some excitement back into our play, stopping short of complete gung ho, obviously. i hope Rafa puts some fire back in the collective belly, because it's still early enough in the season to make this one a big success.

[honourablegeorge]

Funnily enough, on that "overburdened with tactics" point - commentators last night made much of the fact that Rafa wouldn't have known how Marseilles would play, as it was their first game under a new manager.

[D.Boon]

Im afraid i now belive rotation is part of the problem. Nobody gets a chance to develop an understanding with their teammates.

 

The other key thing for me is that the squad is not as strong as we all thought/hoped.

 

Leto, Sissoko, Benayoun are all second rate replacements at present. I know they are young and should improve but they are currently not good enough. You can add Pennant to the list of not good enough as well. Babbael is not getting enough games to make a judgement yet.

 

Not enough qaulity in the squad and too much rotating in combination are the problem

[Magic8Ball]

Im afraid i now belive rotation is part of the problem. Nobody gets a chance to develop an understanding with their teammates.

 

The other key thing for me is that the squad is not as strong as we all thought/hoped.

 

Leto, Sissoko, Benayoun are all second rate replacements at present. I know they are young and should improve but they are currently not good enough. You can add Pennant to the list of not good enough as well. Babbael is not getting enough games to make a judgement yet.

 

Not enough qaulity in the squad and too much rotating in combination are the problem

I've said this for a while and been shouted down. we dont have enough quality to replace our spine with.

Agger - helps up play a higher line and bring the ball into midfield - who can replace him?

Alonso - best passer in the team - I would have hoped with Gerrard back he wouldnt be missed, but he is

Momo - Great engine, good young midfield player but it seems only Alonso can actually play well with him - definately a point worthy of more thought

Torres - still needs to find his best partner - sadly I doubt that's Crouch( I think as a team we are moving beyond Crouch now)

Pennant/Benayoun - Neither is really good enough alone though both bring something to the team, now if we could combine them we would be getting somewhere

Babel - Not really a left winger, perhaps long term option for striker but that leaves us without a left wing !!!

[Ibby]

with the current rotation policy there is neither the incentive for a player who plays very well one game to continue that run on to the next (as they will be rotated or dropped in favour of another for the next game) and a player who plays extremely poor in a game knows that he will get his chance again very soon, not through someone else playing poor but through the rotation policy.

 

rafa has to start picking his so called best 11 week in week out (if he knows what that is) to get us out of this rutt

[Leo No.8]

it seemed to me last night that maybe the players are being overburdened with tactics and executing them precisely, to the detriment of any intuitive football. any initiative seemed to be stifled until we went a goal down and then instinct appeared to kick in as we grabbed the game by the scruff of the neck. of course, with less than 15 minutes to go, it was all too late.

 

it just feels like we need to loosen up a bit and get some excitement back into our play, stopping short of complete gung ho, obviously. i hope Rafa puts some fire back in the collective belly, because it's still early enough in the season to make this one a big success.

 

Very much agree with this - the players appear to be over regimented at the moment.

 

Rafa seems to be overly obssessed with putting out a team to combat what the opposition can do and giving our players specific instructions to follow, which isn't entirely necessary when the team we are playing against are usually inferior to us in terms of ability.

 

Gerrard was sitting on top of the back four when we were desperately trying to claw that goal back last night, and Momo was running round aimlessly in a more advanced position. What the f*ck was all that about?

[honourablegeorge]

Heh. This raised a smile, at least:

 

Asked if he could find a single positive aspect from the evening, Benítez deadpanned: “Yes. It’s over."

[Stevie H]

Very much agree with this - the players appear to be over regimented at the moment.

 

Rafa seems to be overly obssessed with putting out a team to combat what the opposition can do and giving our players specific instructions to follow, which isn't entirely necessary when the team we are playing against are usually inferior to us in terms of ability.

 

Gerrard was sitting on top of the back four when we were desperately trying to claw that goal back last night, and Momo was running round aimlessly in a more advanced position. What the f*ck was all that about?

he's the only manager who seems to have this rotation / keeps the players fit for the end of the season run-in. whatever happened to the cliché about getting the points on the board and preferring to be sat at the top of the table rather than having the games in hand but playing catch-up?

[honourablegeorge]

We'll win ALL our games 4-0 after Xmas though, right?

 

RIGHT?

[beejay]

Disagree. It IS about rotation. There is just no sense in making 5 or 6 changes every game.

 

For a team to perform well, the players have to know their own strengths & weaknesses, the right positions to take up to cover for your mate, to have developed an understanding of the players around you so you are aware of an overlap or a run into space. It's pass, move & support and the best at it are those who play together regularly and trust each other so it becomes 2nd nature.

 

That was completelt missing from our game last night and we lost all semblance of shape very early on. Rotation is fine for a couple of changes a game based on form or fitness but wholesale changes every game is not going to work.

[Flasher]

When was the last time Gerrard and Momo started a game together as the CM pairing? I can't think of a time when this happened.

 

All bar Reina and Finnan were awful last night, and I include Rafa in that. He should have made better changes a lot sooner. It was clear after 20 minutes we were in trouble. Riise, Babel and Mascherano should have all come on at half time IMO, for Leto, Momo and Aurelio.

 

As someone mentioned elsewhere. Rotation doesn't mean competition for places, quite the opposite in fact. You don't need to try hard because sooner or later you will play.

 

Pako leaving has had an effect. We've not been the same since Gerrard returned from the toe injury either, which is worrying.

 

Carra's legs look dead too. He's someone that DOES need a rest by the looks of things.