Athens

[Gunga Din]

This is my take on things as they happened, and I just wanted to share them with you. I?m very very annoyed about what has happened, I?m gutted about the result, but if I?m totally honest, I?m more gutted about the way fans of the club were treated, and about how a small number of them behaved at in Athens. I don?t think there is a single contributory factor, but more a whole host of things, that combined, have left a very sour taste in the mouth of people who follow this football club.

 

The whole think has been handled appallingly, and lessons that you would think would have been learned from previous footballing disasters such as Heysel and Hillsborough simply have not been learnt.

 

For me the mistakes of Liverpool FC started the night we won our semi final. (The mistakes made by UEFA started well before that, but I?ll come back to that later) It may have even started before then, but I?ll give the club the benefit of the doubt on this one. Liverpool football club at this stage would have known how many tickets they were going to get, and how many would qualify for a ticket using their qualification system. This should have been communicated to the fans at the earliest opportunity. It wasn?t. What happened next was fans who were assuming, rightly or wrongly, that they should be ok for a ticket due to either being a Season Ticket Holder, or having been to all the home Champions League games, going ahead and booking flights, hotels etc, at considerable cost and almost all non refundable, for the trip to Athens.

 

Liverpool FC knew this would happen. Why were measures not taken before the semi final, or even the day after the semi final, to make public the criteria for getting a final ticket? This was, in my opinion a major mistake made by someone at Liverpool FC, and this resulted directly in many thousands of fans who had already financially committed to going to Athens, finding out that they had no official ticket from the club, and as a result, many thousands of fans being in Athens trying to get tickets on the black market.

 

As a result of this, certain people decided that the only way to get into the ground was by forged tickets. They knew the market for forgeries would be there, simply because so many were booked to go to the final and had no ticket. The market was also there because fans, who had already committed vast amounts of money to get to Athens, were so desperate not to go in vain, that they were willing to risk getting caught with a forgery that they knowingly bought them.

 

At Istanbul in 2005, there were thousands of tickets on sale on the streets before the final, these tickets had been bought be the Istanbul locals and then sold onto fans for over inflated prices, but as the time to the final in 2005 drew closer, the costs dropped, and there seemed to be tickets available. Again, in Athens, people assumed this would be the case. There had been rumours abound all day that there were tickets available in Athens, and more false rumours that Milan tickets returned to UEFA would be going on sale. Both of these rumours turned out to be wrong, but people went to the ground anyway with the hope that they would be available at the stadium, or that there would be touts at the ground.

 

The problem with this, was that there were literally thousands of ticketless fans, many who had been drinking all day, turning up at the stadium in search of tickets. When they got there, what they must have seen would have given them hope of getting into the stadium. There were 3 lines of ?Ticket Checks?. Getting through the first ticket check was simply a matter of walking past the police. It was as simple as that. There were sporadic checks, but my ticket was still in my wallet at this stage, and I hadn?t been asked to show it. Getting through the first check ticketless was simple. I personally thought at this time that this was very lax, that they were going to get overwhelmed. There was still about 90 minutes to kickoff, and there were thousands milling around the stadium grounds, and simply not enough police or stewards to check everyone.

 

I assumed that the next ticket check would be a bit more stringent, but this was just a few people stationed at a large temporary perimeter fence made of wire you sometimes get at building sites. There were gaps in this where people where supposedly checking tickets. The ticket checks in the one I went through simply consisted of being asked to ?hold your ticket up in the air? there were hundreds of people trying to push through the gap, how many had tickets I don?t know, but again, my ticket remained in my wallet, as I was carried through with the surge of the crowd. I did however, see some people holding up blue boarding cards from planes and getting waved through. I didn?t see a single ticket getting actually checked at this point, which I would have thought would have been the most crucial, as I felt that it would stop people getting to the turnstile with forged tickets or no tickets, and would have therefore helped prevent any trouble.

 

I used the word ?Turnstile? in the last paragraph. I was being optimistic. There was no turnstile at the ground. Instead, it was just a large gate, in my case, attended by two people. There were literally hundreds of people gathered outside it trying to get through. I was caught up in the middle, every now and then the gate would open, but with the sheer volume of people outside pushing, it swung open and literally hundreds surged through. My ticket, at this stage, was still in my wallet, I looked behind, as they were not trying to get the gate shut, many more had joined the surge, as they seen what was happening and trying to force themselves through. At this stage, my thoughts were simply getting into the ground, as I could sense a nasty atmosphere outside and felt that it was only a matter of time it all went off big style.

 

When I got into the ground I was shocked at what I seen. Our end was full. And I don?t mean full in the respect that everyone was in there seat and all was well, I mean it literally packed. There were people stood on steps, with no room where the seats were, it looked like people were stood two to as eat. It was at this point that I realised that I had actually somehow managed to get into the wrong part of the ground, and I had to get to the front of the stadium, out on the track, and walk over to the part I was supposed to be in. I explained this to someone at the front, at this stage showing my ticket for the only time, and explaining I was in the wrong section, and was eventually let through. When I got to where I supposed to sit, that area was packed too, with people again stood on the steps trying to watch the game.

 

From where my seat was, you couldn?t actually see the first 10 yards or so of the goalmouth, I could see from just in front of the penalty spot. The obstruction to my view of the game was advertising boards on the running track!! How can UEFA justify selling tickets to people for the biggest club game in the world, and then hindering their view with an advertising board?

There are so many questions I would want answered, I?m so angry about this I fully intend to write to UEFA, FIFA, the English FA, Liverpool FC, and the Sports minister at the Government.

 

How was this stadium picked for a Champions League Final? It?s not designed to be a football stadium.

 

How come there were no turnstiles?

 

Without a turnstile, how can they know how many people are in the stadium?

Wont this also mean that there is a danger that the stadium could be over capacity?

If the stadium is over capacity, does that not render the stadiums safety certificate invalid, making it illegal for the game to take place?

 

This club of ours has been through two horrific disasters, and I don?t know if people realise how close they were to being involved in another.

 

 

The behaviour of some of our fans at times is disgraceful. We are, and have been over the past few seasons, been developing and harbouring a very nasty minority element within our support. These people need weeding out. There can never be an excuse for storming gates to gain entry to a football ground, there can never be a reason for forging tickets for people to try and get in. but until our football club, and UEFA, take away the main contributory factors, and use adequate stadiums that have turnstiles, use tickets that are difficult be forged, then these problems are not going to go away. In fact, they are only going to get worse.

[Maldini]

Spot on from start to finish Wayne

[Kahnee]

He went on a bit

[berdoing]

A point not many have picked up on is why this doesn't happen at English grounds.

 

The reason it doesn't happen is because the people trying it know they would have no chance of it coming off.

 

Some people will always try and take what isn't theirs in any walk of life... the problem on Wednesday was that for weeks, all the stories coming out about the facilities had basically given people the incentive to go and try and bunk in. And they managed it.

 

The tickets themselves were far too easy to be forged.

 

That there were no turnstiles is a disgrace.

 

UEFA made it easy for people to take advantage of the situation with their lack of proper arrangements.

 

The more cynical person might even suggest they weren't particularly bothered that it all happened either...

 

As for the airport and flights situation, that's a separate issue, but one that also needs to be addressed. When the Champions League final is at Wembley, as at Manchester four years ago, there won't be any of these problems.

[Mr S]

Wayne is absolutely right. The key to the problem is that you had a stadium with no turnstiles. Had there been turnstiles people without tickets would not have got in. It's as simple as that.

[Zoob]

First time I heard that the stadium didn't have turnstiles, I thought the report was just a mistake. Football matches should be held at football grounds, or at least stadiums that are equipped to host football matches.

 

What ended up happening was disgusting, but it could have been a lot worse.

[The Invisible Man]

I still can't understand why the club did not prepare something for straight after the semi-final warning fans that even if they had 6 credits they might not get a ticket and that it would be a ballot. It's not that hard to just shove a quick piece on the website. This is one of the biggest football clubs in the world. We knew we would be getting 17,000 tickets from the start of the season on the uefa website.

We should have prepared for the ticket situation straight away getting the tickets on sale to the shareholders etc over the weekend and then onto the people with 6+ on the monday. Everyone would then have had plenty of time to sort out flights, hotels etc, with their ticket in hand.

 

Instead we ended up with the club phoning people up only a couple of days before the final took place.

We managed to prepare the bus for the tour in case we won, so why did we not prepare the ticket situation??

 

The main fault I found with the checkpoints at Athens was we has 3/4 flimsy ones instead of one strong one. The Athens police and stewards had years to have trial runs and sort it out properly. Instead we get ticket checks which looked like they had been devised 10 minutes before they started letting people in.

If the opportunity to bunk in to the ground is there it is not surprising that so many did, especially as there was nowhere near the ground to watch the game.

On my way out of the ground I saw stewards and security guards sitting down in groups looking ready to go home. As a steward I know that one of the most important things is sorting out everyone leaving the ground, but to see stewards just sitting and milling around whilst the stadium was still half full is madness instead of sorting out everyone going to the car park to wait to get to the airport.

There were no signposts as well to which way your gate was and to where you went after the game to get back to the airport.

[surf]

  Kahnee said:

He went on a bit

 

[Maldini]

I'm just surprised we weren't blamed for Jimmy Jump getting on the pitch

[Leroy]

Well said Wayne, pity some of the tabloids did`nt put it across aswell as you have.

Lives dont matter to some people when there`s extra money to be had.

[Rich Gobey]

Sounds shocking Wayne, my brother couldn't get in with a legitamate ticket, he was distraught about it, as you'd imagine.

Edited May 26, 2007 by Gobez

[Guest Pedro]

Wayne, that's the best post on the subject ANYWHERE by far.

 

I hope you do carry out your intention to write to the powers-that-be that you mention. I pray it gets thru too.

 

Pedro

[dorgie]

  Redden said:

Well said Wayne, pity some of the tabloids did`nt put it across aswell as you have.

Lives dont matter to some people when there`s extra money to be had.

 

Brian Reade in today's Mirror wrote a very good article on it. He contrasted the manner afforded the VIPs on entering the ground to the treatment of the Liverpool fans entering the ground :

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/columnists/r...-name_page.html

 

  Quote

BLAME GAME

UEFA's men in Armani duck all responsibility after Athens night of shameful contrasts

Brian Reade 26/05/2007

More Reade On Sport

I SPENT three hours before the Champions League Final walking around the stadium trying to find my son and see if he'd got hold of a ticket.

 

The route from the press box to the Liverpool end required negotiating the rear of the sprawling VIP hospitality area. Here's a few contrasting sights. Try to guess which section was which.

 

In one area, a line of police vans blocked entry for thousands of people who'd paid up to £140 for genuine tickets. Those who protested were whipped with batons and told to go home. In the other area limos ushered through men in Armani who had paid nothing.

 

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In one section, a pair of shoeless teenage girls staggered around with tears streaming down their faces after pepper gas had been sprayed. In another, two towering models wearing designer gear and bored expressions strolled on a red carpet past potted plants.

 

In one end, there was anarchy as security tried to deny entry to those desperate to gain sight of the pitch. In another, doors were held open for the recipients of lobster and champagne reception passes.

 

It's right that UEFA lambast the ticketless Liverpool fans who conned or forced their way into the Olympic Stadium. It's understandable they blame them for depriving genuine ticket-holders entry.

 

But their refusal to accept ANY responsibility for a frightening bedlam in which their customers were barred from an event they'd paid for, sums up the dangerous contempt in which they hold the real lifeblood of the game.

 

It partly explains Manchester United fans' experience in Rome and Lille. It makes you shudder at how worse Athens could have been.

 

It sums up the extent to which the little men who pretend to run football are in serious denial. Incapable and unwilling to stem its explosion into a grotesque, wealth-obsessed monster.

 

My son was ticketless like thousands of other Reds season ticket holders who'd attended every home Champions League game. He booked a £650 package to Greece on the day after the semi-final, confident through past experience that he'd qualify for a ticket.

 

The club had given these fans no warning that this time their chances were as low as one-in-five. How, due to corporate and shareholder demands, fans were only getting 11,000 of their 17,000 allocation.

 

So what did UEFA expect the fans who'd booked the packages to do, especially after Liverpool's chief executive claimed Scousers always manage to get in by hook or by crook? Should they wave their money goodbye and stay at home, or head out to Greece, knowing there would be thousands of tickets floating around on the black market?

 

Tickets like the 9,000 UEFA put into a worldwide inter net ballot in January and the 20,000 that went to the UEFA "family". On Wednesday almost two-thirds of the stadium was taken up by Liverpool fans and almost one third Milan. It was the same in Istanbul.

 

UEFA knew the overwhelming majority of the 29,000 tickets which didn't go to either club, would end up in the hands of the supporters. They just decided to let the touts skim off a fortune and multi-national firms indulge in competitions, give-aways and back-handers.

 

When UEFA were warned there were 5,000 forgeries in circulation, they claimed their security would ensure only genuine ticket-holders made it inside the ground. That worked.

 

This was a ground with no turnstiles which wasn't built for football. Why was it held there? Almost 8,000 of its 71,000 seats had been turned into advertising space. How was that sanctioned? There was a block of 800 interseats in the Italian end, which AC Milan were given tickets for, which ended up going to Liverpool fans. How did that come about and who would have taken responsibility if fighting had ensued? Certainly not UEFA.

 

My son eventually ended up with a ticket five hours before kick-off, thanks to his uncle pulling in a corporate favour. It was bought from a London agency and cost £1,000.

 

That ticket is still fully intact. It was never handled by security. He showed it four times. Each time he held it above his head and was waved through.

 

To my knowledge so too were fans who showed an aeroplane boarding card, a cigarette packet and a flyer for a lap-dance bar.

 

To top it all off, UEFA spokesman Rob Faulkner put the shambles of Athens down to his organisation being "a victim of our own success".

 

They're the victims, you see.

 

Staggering.

Edited May 26, 2007 by dorgie

[Mike]

im not angry about it...i should be after all i had my ticket pick pocketed.

but im actually depressed by what happened out there.

[allez les rouges]

my worry, is due to the number of fans pushing, and non existant checks on tickets, if there were turnstiles there would have been a huge crush that would have resulted in deaths.

 

whilst the non existant checks created large numbers of people getting to gate, the fact that it only was a gate and not a brick wall, meant nobody died.

 

uefa and to a lesser degree the club, created a desperation for tickets. but that doesnt excuse the 10s of thousands trying to get in without a ticket.

 

  Mike said:

im not angry about it...i should be after all i had my ticket pick pocketed.

but im actually depressed by what happened out there.

 

thats really s*** that mate. when i was on the tube, a guy with his girlfriend about half a foot infront of me got theres robbed. fortunately he had his flights, and tickets in other pocket. i gave them 20 euros, it was the least i could do.

[Guest Portly]

It's not often that I agree with William Gaillard the UEFA spokesman, but I'm afraid he had a point when he said it was the fault of Liverpool fans getting in the ground without tickets or with forged tickets. There's no getting away from the truth of this. It led the the unpleasantness outside the ground when people with genuine tickets couldn't get in. However, Gaillard should also have conceded that UEFA should not have arranged a Final in a stadium without turnstiles.

 

However, I think we should thank our lucky stars that the final was against Milan and not Manchester United. If it had been us v the Mancs, it would have been World War III. Both clubs would probably have been banned from European competitions by now.

[Gunga Din]

  allezlesrouge said:

my worry, is due to the number of fans pushing, and non existant checks on tickets, if there were turnstiles there would have been a huge crush that would have resulted in deaths.

 

whilst the non existant checks created large numbers of people getting to gate, the fact that it only was a gate and not a brick wall, meant nobody died.

 

uefa and to a lesser degree the club, created a desperation for tickets. but that doesnt excuse the 10s of thousands trying to get in without a ticket.

thats really s*** that mate. when i was on the tube, a guy with his girlfriend about half a foot infront of me got theres robbed. fortunately he had his flights, and tickets in other pocket. i gave them 20 euros, it was the least i could do.

 

the main reasons there were tens of thousands there with no tickets was because of the way the club sold them, waiting til everyone had booked before releasing the selling details, and because UEFA used most of the tickets for corportate jollies. the reasons for the problems are many, and together caused it. it wasnt caused by one single f*** up, but by many smaller ones, both by the club and UEFA, although the most important of these was no turnstiles in my opinion.

[allez les rouges]

  Portly said:

It's not often that I agree with William Gaillard the UEFA spokesman, but I'm afraid he had a point when he said it was the fault of Liverpool fans getting in the ground without tickets or with forged tickets. There's no getting away from the truth of this. It led the the unpleasantness outside the ground when people with genuine tickets couldn't get in. However, Gaillard should also have conceded that UEFA should not have arranged a Final in a stadium without turnstiles.

 

However, I think we should thank our lucky stars that the final was against Milan and not Manchester United. If it had been us v the Mancs, it would have been World War III. Both clubs would probably have been banned from European competitions by now.

 

our fans were a major contribution to the problem. but, uefa created a desperation of tickets. they two are equally at fault.

[Gunga Din]

  Portly said:

It's not often that I agree with William Gaillard the UEFA spokesman, but I'm afraid he had a point when he said it was the fault of Liverpool fans getting in the ground without tickets or with forged tickets. There's no getting away from the truth of this. It led the the unpleasantness outside the ground when people with genuine tickets couldn't get in. However, Gaillard should also have conceded that UEFA should not have arranged a Final in a stadium without turnstiles.

 

However, I think we should thank our lucky stars that the final was against Milan and not Manchester United. If it had been us v the Mancs, it would have been World War III. Both clubs would probably have been banned from European competitions by now.

 

no one is disputing the fact that some of our fans were not to blame, but there were other much bigger factors to this which caused us to have so many ticketless fans there in the first place

Edited May 26, 2007 by big wayne

[Mike]

...and as wayne said - packages for flying and hotels went on sale before the ticketing information was released...once people had paid, they were going anyway.

[Nebraska Red]

the clubs who reach the semi finals are in a difficult position with regards to sorting out tickets.

 

they don't have enough time between semi and final to do a really professional job.

 

they could have started the "selection" process as soon as they knew they were in a semi final, but perhaps there would have been complaints re "mockering." however, the club would have been able to find out how many of the ballot winners would actually want to go and go down the list until all the tickets were allocated.

 

there were 19 days between the quarters and semis and then 22 days between semi and final. you would hope that even our ticket office could sort it out given that amount of time.

 

the club could work with the travel organizers to make sure that packages were only sold (or booked, to be confirmed later) to qualifying ticket holders.

 

i remember back in 1981 being able to get 4 tickets for Paris because we all had season tickets, but we had to provide proof of our travel arrangements before the club would hand them over to us. they had plenty of time to get the tickets to the right people although in those days, the number of matches in the old European Cup was a lot lower.

[Billy Dane]

One way to give the clubs more time to dish out tickets etc would be for UEFA to move the final back a few weeks to coincide with the end of the Spanish and Italian (?) seasons. It's supposed to be an end of season game anyway.

[Hassony]

  le2red said:

One way to give the clubs more time to dish out tickets etc would be for UEFA to move the final back a few weeks to coincide with the end of the Spanish and Italian (?) seasons. It's supposed to be an end of season game anyway.

i think the spanish and italian league should finish their seasons earlier

[Nebraska Red]

  Hassony said:

i think the spanish and italian league should finish their seasons earlier

 

 

or, all of the major leagues could get their act together and start and finish at about the same time.

 

the bloody Spanish league has to take a break next week for Euro 2008 qualifiers and that is just ridiculous.

[Sion]

  nebraska red said:

or, all of the major leagues could get their act together and start and finish at about the same time.

 

the bloody Spanish league has to take a break next week for Euro 2008 qualifiers and that is just ridiculous.

 

It's because of the xmas break they have is it not?