Supporting Liverpool

[Figaro]

It still hurts - more than ever.

 

I've had hundreds of Spanish friends and clients, even people I don't really know, tell me that they are really sorry we lost and that we played Milan off the pitch.

 

The last time I felt this bad was the FA cup final against the Mancs in 1977. At least that was offset by the fact that we had Rome. This time there's nothing.

 

There's this feeling of having a pit in my stomach that I can't get rid off. I haven't seen any of the news and I certainly won't be watching the video of the game - not for a few months at least.

 

Roll on next season - let's trounce the mancs and co. and get to the final in Moscow.

[RafaShanks]

It reminded me a bit of the World Club cup game against Sao Paulo, where we dominated and they scored.

 

Even though it was a mickey mouse game in some quarters, it still feckin hurt as hell.

 

I was a bit down the whole of yesterday, but am back to normal today.

 

I wouldn't have it any other way though.

[IgPig]

It was a really strange feeling waking up on Thursday with a massive hangover and feeling like someone had died.

 

I kind of always just expect that we'll win when we're in a final. Its always seems inevitable.

[Paul B]

To be honest, I genuinely could not give a s****. The garbage I've had to put up with going to watch the thing has made me very, very angry and seriously considering whether to watch any aways next season. The disgust I feel about some of the scum who follow us goes deeper than losing some stupid football match.

[Guest Snorky]

After witnessing the stuff last night, I've forgotten that we got beat, it doesn't hurt one bit. If bowing and begging to the powers of football to get a fair hearing then we are better off without it.

 

Every final from the FA to the CL is just a corporate freebie with the real fans missing out.

 

I'm more disappointed about this than losing.

[Cunny]

Paul B and Kev sum my feelings up perfectly.

I'm made up the season is over and I'm not going to miss it.

[Nebraska Red]

with regards to the "corporate freebies" , whilst we don't like it, the perks given to the corporate sponsors are a fact of life and will only expand as sports become more and more popular with the so called money men of sport.

 

at least with a bigger stadium we can ensure that more "ordinary" fans get to see our games, but the big games with limited ticket availabilty will always be a problem.

 

it is exactly the same over here for almost every big event. our local indoor stadium will host some of the post season basketball games next year. out of 18,000 multi game ticket packages, less than 1000 went on general sale. the same thing is happening for the olympic swimming trials we have next year and these selling arrangements are not going down to well in Omaha.

 

i was sad at the end of the game and went out to mow the neighbor's lawn as a way of relaxing. reading some of the stuff on here the past couple of days has had me seething with anger at all of the responsible parties, but mostly at these so called Liverpool fans who have clearly learned nothing from past events.

Edited May 25, 2007 by nebraska red

[Snookie]

I suppose this is particularly aimed at Paul B & Snorky but do you think that you'll feel differently come August ?

 

Its not really a fair question I know but you get the sense from more than one person on here that a parting of the ways is taking place. I love everything about LFC but sometimes it seems to be a very different club than the one other people seem to support, or want to support. This is nothing to do with being beaten in a final or loosing a league. But the accounts that people are offering of the behaviour of supposed fellow fans sounds like a throwback to the worst of the 80s. I, for one, want nothing to do with that.

 

Can anyone explain how we got back to this place or were we always here and just chose to ignore it?

[Guest Snorky]

I suppose this is particularly aimed at Paul B & Snorky but do you think that you'll feel differently come August ?

 

Its not really a fair question I know but you get the sense from more than one person on here that a parting of the ways is taking place. I love everything about LFC but sometimes it seems to be a very different club than the one other people seem to support, or want to support. This is nothing to do with being beaten in a final or loosing a league. But the accounts that people are offering of the behaviour of supposed fellow fans sounds like a throwback to the worst of the 80s. I, for one, want nothing to do with that.

 

Can anyone explain how we got back to this place or were we always here and just chose to ignore it?

 

I probably will feel differently in August. After Eindhoven I said to my family and friends that I would never work another European away trip again, but look what happened ?

 

I do think that the club is at a major major crossroads in its history both off the field and on the field. I have always always stood and supported our fans against anyone. But as each game goes by, especially away from home that task becomes harder and harder because there is more evidence to the contary.

 

I've read on the net that we should police our own fans, but that is not going to happen because these 'fans' that I am talking about are no mugs, especially in the gangs that they congregate in. They'll be home now, no doubt glorifying on how they got in and trying to better each other with tales of 'scallyness'. I just hope that maybe some nutcase is within earshot of their tales and missed the game because of their actions, and takes the relevant action.

 

What makes me worse is that I cannot think of one way of stopping these fans doing this all over again next time.

[Romario]

I probably will feel differently in August. After Eindhoven I said to my family and friends that I would never work another European away trip again, but look what happened ?

 

I do think that the club is at a major major crossroads in its history both off the field and on the field. I have always always stood and supported our fans against anyone. But as each game goes by, especially away from home that task becomes harder and harder because there is more evidence to the contary.

 

I've read on the net that we should police our own fans, but that is not going to happen because these 'fans' that I am talking about are no mugs, especially in the gangs that they congregate in. They'll be home now, no doubt glorifying on how they got in and trying to better each other with tales of 'scallyness'. I just hope that maybe some nutcase is within earshot of their tales and missed the game because of their actions, and takes the relevant action.

 

What makes me worse is that I cannot think of one way of stopping these fans doing this all over again next time.

Out of interest Kev, what were the Milan fans like considering they were in the same boat as us regarding ticket allocation? Did they have their fair share of g*******s too or would you even have been in contact with them?

[Guest Snorky]

Out of interest Kev, what were the Milan fans like considering they were in the same boat as us regarding ticket allocation? Did they have their fair share of g*******s too or would you even have been in contact with them?

 

I saw a few during the day and that was it, I've got no idea what happened at their end, and every club has it's share of g*******s.......the word ULTRAS springs to mind especially those in Italy.

[Romario]

I saw a few during the day and that was it, I've got no idea what happened at their end, and every club has it's share of g*******s.......the word ULTRAS springs to mind especially those in Italy.

Cheers for the reply. Sounds like a horrible time altogether. I only ask as I hadn't really heard much from their side and wondered if we just had a bigger amount of scumbbacks following us or in a big crowd starved of tickets everything went pear shaped from both sides.

 

If the latter were the case then I'd image the powers that be might take note for next time but if it was mostly one sided then we will certainly get the blame.

[Guest Snorky]

Cheers for the reply. Sounds like a horrible time altogether. I only ask as I hadn't really heard much from their side and wondered if we just had a bigger amount of scumbbacks following us or in a big crowd starved of tickets everything went pear shaped from both sides.

 

If the latter were the case then I'd image the powers that be might take note for next time but if it was mostly one sided then we will certainly get the blame.

 

We have been blamed by UEFA, end of story. It's just so ruddy frustrating because any man or woman in the street with an ounce of intelligence could organise a CL Final a whole lot better.

 

Too many palms are getting greased in football these days.

[Paul B]

My own feeling is that the badness comes from the drug use taking place. Where the good, recent days of relative calmness and pleasantness were due to E being the drug of choice, it's now coke and that is f***ed up madness in powder form. Loads of lads in the toilets in Loutraki the night before were snorting stupid amounts of the stuff. I asked and they told me they'd smuggled it into Greece with them. I was asked if I wanted any but knowing how they'd brought it in, I politely declined their kind offer.

 

The hyper-manic aggresiveness I saw in some of these t***s is not a normal physical phenomenon. The ravaged, twisted faces I saw outside the ground were due to them being fired up through this apalling diseased drug.

 

If our fans, world reknowned as fair-minded and equitable people, can resort to some of the madness witnessed by many of us on Wednesday, then another major disaster is in the post. It's only a matter of time before it reaches us.

[Guest Snorky]

My own feeling is that the badness comes from the drug use taking place. Where the good, recent days of relative calmness and pleasantness were due to E being the drug of choice, it's now coke and that is f***ed up madness in powder form. Loads of lads in the toilets in Loutraki the night before were snorting stupid amounts of the stuff. I asked and they told me they'd smuggled it into Greece with them. I was asked if I wanted any but knowing how they'd brought it in, I politely declined their kind offer.

 

The hyper-manic aggresiveness I saw in some of these t***s is not a normal physical phenomenon. The ravaged, twisted faces I saw outside the ground were due to them being fired up through this apalling diseased drug.

 

If our fans, world reknowned as fair-minded and equitable people, can resort to some of the madness witnessed by many of us on Wednesday, then another major disaster is in the post. It's only a matter of time before it reaches us.

 

Can't find anything to argue with in this Paul. I spoke to a copper I know who was over there, and he was extremely concerned about everything going on. In Britian he could arrest them, abroad he writes a report to his supervisor, maybe if our police force were given more powers abroad.........................

[Nebraska Red]

What makes me worse is that I cannot think of one way of stopping these fans doing this all over again next time.

 

 

there are ways to stop this kind of thing happening.

 

the only problem is that they require co operation between different bodies who will not want to relinquish or share control .

 

between them, the clubs, UEFA, the police in each country, the stadium officials and the travel industry could all get this sorted out and get a much better spectacle organised.

 

it is doubtful they ever will, because at the end of the day none of the above really care about the ordinary fan.

[Guest Snorky]

there are ways to stop this kind of thing happening.

 

the only problem is that they require co operation between different bodies who will not want to relinquish or share control .

 

between them, the clubs, UEFA, the police in each country, the stadium officials and the travel industry could all get this sorted out and get a much better spectacle organised.

 

it is doubtful they ever will, because at the end of the day none of the above really care about the ordinary fan.

 

If this happens then they'll kick off about civil liberties, human rights etc etc , get legal aid, get a boss lawyer and win.

[Nebraska Red]

If this happens then they'll kick off about civil liberties, human rights etc etc , get legal aid, get a boss lawyer and win.

 

but by the time they go through the process the game will be over and done with and they will have stayed at home to fight their case.

[Tosh]

I am far from a super fan, and spend far too much time on here.

 

I have said this on here before, however. The stuff I read on here now, vs when I first signed up, suggests to me that while the "disaffection" with the game is increasing, so, in a rather odd way is it's attractiveness to a "less desirable element". In other words, from what I read, "hooliganism" is on it's way back. Gangs, scuffles, banter going too far... memorials being damaged (as an example, not pointing fingers), trains being wrecked and so on. As I was in London all week I have no first hand experience but from what I read on here, this week appears to be in the same vein

 

But then, in the current orgy that is the Premiership etc, is that really surprising?

[Guest Snorky]

I am far from a super fan, and spend far too much time on here.

 

I have said this on here before, however. The stuff I read on here now, vs when I first signed up, suggests to me that while the "disaffection" with the game is increasing, so, in a rather odd way is it's attractiveness to a "less desirable element". In other words, from what I read, "hooliganism" is on it's way back. Gangs, scuffles, banter going too far... memorials being damaged (as an example, not pointing fingers), trains being wrecked and so on. As I was in London all week I have no first hand experience but from what I read on here, this week appears to be in the same vein

 

But then, in the current orgy that is the Premiership etc, is that really surprising?

 

You could well be right, there's a whole generation that has missed out on this. We live in a more violent country than back then, maybe it's just the circle of life and there's sod all we can do about it.

[Snookie]

OK, we all seem to be acknowledging there is a problem. Tosh has suggested that as idiots like us get disaffected with the game it appears to becoming more attractive to idiots. But what would turn it back into the game we all love?

 

- what should supporting a football club mean?

 

- what should going to a game be about?

 

- what should the relationship between fans of different teams be?

 

- what role should the fans have in the running of a club?

[Tosh]

That's a long thread in the making....

 

But for one thing. Most of us would agree on what it SHOULD be about. And I include OM and his Manc mates (and fans of other clubs) in that

 

Question really is your first one, what would turn it back into the game we all love. That, however is unanswerable unless we all decide to support Accrington Stanley: stakes are lower but you care, football on a Saturday, not investing your life savings in a ticket for an away game in some foreign country, relating in some way to the players on the pitch etc etc

 

In other words, take the money out.

 

Trouble is, we have so few shared experiences today altough we still revel in them and need common ground. WHat was the last TV show that got the same audience as (say) the Morecambe and Wise Christmas special? Common then, rare now as we all DVD it, surf for it, playstation it or whatever. Yet 40,000 belting out YNWA at Anfield is a shared experience to relish

 

But you don't get that at the Crown Ground at 4.45 on a wet Saturday

[m4ttc]

I can relate to Snorky and Paul B (BTWI think you may have been on my flight last night). Presumably you saw the murder in the airport?

 

I can honestly say that I will no longer making Euro trips again. I will watch them on the TV. The whole thing from start to finish was a nitemare. Some of the goings on were disgraceful. When 'our' fans are mugging older fellow fans for tickets, it is, for me, time to call it a day.

[Guest RedLegend]

These violent incidents are getting all too common now an Euro aways. In Barcelona I was in a cafe off the Ramblas when all almighty ruck started inside it between Liverpool fans. Fists and chairs flying everywhere.

 

Aldo was in there at the same time. Only for he was there to eventually calm them down I think they would have thrashed the entire cafe.

 

One of the girls we were with went pale with shock after a chair went flying right past her nose.

Edited May 25, 2007 by RedLegend

[Snookie]

Trouble is, we have so few shared experiences today altough we still revel in them and need common ground.

 

In a few weeks you'll find thousands of top shop workers screaming outside the Big Brother house to witness some no-mark with more neuroses than talent gets fed to the lions as the centre-piece of a public show of humiliation. Our culture seems to be always searching for shared experiences but they are increasingly nasty, brutush and short. Nothing seems real for a whole swathe of people unless someone is suffering.

 

That is now part of football or at least part of the media coverage of it. That's what I'd like to see removed completely from football but I dont think it is going too happen. Creating simple stories with clearly identifiable 'good guys' & 'bad guys', heroes & villains and so in is the easy route to building and maintaining audiences for broadcasters. This keeps advertisers happy so they keep providing income which in turn feeds the machine, which keeps it running and so on... I cant see it changing because it is the default way for how many people define the world.

 

Christ, I'm wrapping myself in crap and making little or no sense. I'd better stop. Been working for 14 hours straight and its starting to show...