Rick Parry answers ballot questions

[Cunny]

I could not see this posted elsewhere and thought it deserved a thread of it's own.

 

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liv...-name_page.html

 

'Nobody says the system's perfect'

 

May 11 2007

 

AFTER the ongoing furore of Athens tickets, the ECHO?s TONY BARRETT puts fans? concerns directly to Reds supremo Rick Parry

 

by Tony Barrett, Liverpool Echo

 

ECHO: Can you tell us how many tickets were available in the ballot and how many fans were entered into the ballot?

 

Rick Parry: I?m not going to go into the breakdown of the 17,000 tickets because I don?t think that serves any useful purpose. It isn?t going to produce any more tickets.?

 

ECHO: One of the arguments we?ve had from fans is that they do not understand why they cannot have transparency on this.

 

Rick Parry: Well, they never have. We have never given a full breakdown of where tickets go and, as I say, that would not help or produce any more tickets.

 

There are two issues that create the difference between this time and Istanbul and only two issues. One is the reduced number of tickets and the second is significantly more people having been to six games ? a lot more.

 

Far fewer people in 2005 had been to six games or more?

 

ECHO: Are you talking 30,000 plus who have been to six games this time?

 

Rick Parry: Yes.

 

ECHO: Some fans have suggested it is imperative that the club tell them the numbers involved in the ballot.

 

Rick Parry: No, it is not imperative that we get involved in the numbers game.

 

The imperative thing is that the number of people who got tickets was in proportion to the numbers in the ballot. So the ratio of season ticket holders to fan card holders that actually ended up with tickets was exactly the ratio of the numbers of people in the ballot.

 

There were suggestions there was a bias towards people with fan cards. There wasn?t.

 

There have been suggestions that we favoured out-of-towners. That?s ridiculous. Why would we? What would we even contemplate doing that for?

 

It wasn?t conducted in the ticket office. There have been suggestions of collusion but it was done in a completely independent, computer generated process which could not be interfered with.

 

And once people had gone into the ballot there was an even spread. They all had an equal chance and that?s how the tickets have come out.

 

ECHO: Is there any suggestion there might have been any glitches with the system?

 

Rick Parry: ?No. None at all.

 

There have not been any glitches but, clearly, as we have said all along there were nowhere near enough tickets. It?s as simple as that.

 

There has been no conspiracy, no manipulation. A number of people have been successful in the ballot, albeit not as many as we would have liked. It?s not as if no-one is emerging from the ballot with a ticket?

 

ECHO: When it became clear there would not be enough tickets to go around why was the system not refined to take into account credits built up last season or tickets bought for the Maccabi Haifa qualifying game?

 

Rick Parry: Because at the start of the season we set out what the policy would be and we did not feel it appropriate to change the system now.

 

You can mount a whole series of arguments as to better ways of doing a ballot? You could reward loyalty over 5 years or over 10 years. You can have legitimate arguments over all of those things.

 

You can argue that you should reward attendance at Premier League games but nobody argued that at the start of the season when we published the policy; nobody said that?s rubbish, we must do it differently; and the policy we have had consistently over the last few years has been to reward attendance at particular cup competitions.

 

As I say, you can argue with the policy but I don?t think you argue with the policy two weeks before the final. If you want to argue do so at the start of the season because what about the people who have bought tickets for the Champions League games thinking we? ve got a chance of going to the final, and we suddenly say well, we know you bought them on that basis, but we?ve changed our minds.

 

ECHO: Is there not an argument that those fans who go to the less popular away games like Portsmouth are actually showing greater loyalty than those who choose only to go to the popular ones, like those in the Champions League?

 

Rick Parry: Yes. I can certainly understand the argument. I could advance 50 different arguments, each of which offer a different basis for allocating the tickets, but this club?s policy has been that we allocate tickets for finals on the basis of attendance in that particular competition.

 

We have separated out the different cup competitions from the league. One of the reasons we did that ? and it goes back to 2001-03 ? was because we got a lot of complaints from supporters who had been to the early rounds of the League Cup, for example, against Grimsby in the rain and there was a low attendance, and they were getting squeezed out by season ticket holders who had not been to a single game in the competition when it got to the semi-finals and finals.

 

ECHO: Is that what you are trying to guard against with this policy ? season ticket holders being able to cherry pick the more glamorous games at the expense of non-season ticket holders who have attended more rounds?

 

Rick Parry: What season tickets do guarantee you is the opportunity to go to every home game and if every season ticket holder took up their allocation for every Champions League game there would be hardly any non-season ticket holders in the ballot.

 

ECHO: So your position is that the advantage season ticket holders have is they are presented with an opportunity to build up their loyalty in a particular competition from the very outset?

 

Rick Parry: If you are a season ticket holder you can virtually guarantee tickets for every game by going through the stages.

 

But an awful lot of season ticket holders haven?t been to every game. Now, if they had, you would end up with virtually the same number in the ballot because you would still have everyone who had been to the six games wanting tickets.

 

We would still have had the same restriction on the number of tickets so you would still get back to the same problem that there aren?t enough tickets to go round for everyone who wants them.

 

In a sense, what has happened is it?s not so much that season ticket holders who have been to every game have been discriminated against.

 

If other season ticket holders had been to those games they would have been in the ballot ahead of the fan card holders, so you would still end up with the same number of people in the ballot.

 

ECHO: So what you are saying is had more season ticket holders attended the first Champions League home game against Galatasaray and built up their loyalty from there, more of them would have been in the ballot?

 

Rick Parry: Yes. But those season ticket holders who had been to six would still have the same chance of getting a ticket from the ballot because instead of fan card holders you would have had more season ticket holders.

 

So season ticket holders who have only been to four games could have rectified that by going to the other two. It?s down to your own attendance.

 

This is exactly the same system as 2005. We haven?t changed it. But more people have obviously cottoned on to the system and have therefore been to six games.

 

ECHO: Why were tickets not made available to eligible season ticket holders ahead of eligible fan card holders as they were for Istanbul in 2005?

 

Rick Parry: I think this is a misreading of the situation.

 

On that occasion, all season ticket holders and fan card holders who had been to six games were guaranteed a ticket.

 

Where it was staggered was season ticket holders were given first choice within a particular day but this did not impact on who qualified for a ticket.

 

Season ticket holders might have got first choice within a particular category but they were still treated largely in the same way as fan card holders.?

 

ECHO: Why was every eligible fan card holder entered into the ballot. Why were applications not invited?

 

Rick Parry: Because we felt that, first of all, we had all the information of who had been to games so we know who qualifies.

 

One alternative was to invite people to apply by post. You could not have a window or phones. The system would crash with phones and with the window there would be a riot.

 

It would have to have been a postal only application and then that?s down to literally first come, first served.

 

We actually felt it was fairer, because we had all the names and the addresses to give people the opportunity.

 

Now, if there are people within them who do not want the tickets, and that may well be the case, we will still have time to re-ballot and put those out again.

 

Again, it?s a fair point, but we felt for us to do a scrupulously independent random search was probably fairer than just doing a first come, first served sale.

 

ECHO: In the light of the negative reaction in some quarters to the way tickets have been distributed will the club review the loyalty system over the summer, possibly in consultation with fans?

 

Rick Parry: I think we are always happy to listen to views and to discuss. But, as a large number of fans have said to me today, you put 50 in a room and they will come up with 50 different ideas.

 

There are a lot of die-hard fans who over the years have said to me the only system you should have is first come, first served. Don?t have any loyalty.

 

And you get every extreme. You get people who say we should do it over five years. There isn?t a right answer.

 

Everyone will have a strong view that their system is better but, as I said, this is consistent with what we have done in previous years.

 

It is not new and it was published at the start of the season. We didn?t get a deluge of complaints then and it is the same system as Istanbul. But on this occasion more people are eligible and there are fewer tickets so we can?t satisfy everybody.

 

But the fan card holders who have been to six games got tickets for Istanbul ahead of season ticket holders who had not been to six.

 

ECHO: On this occasion there seems to be more genuine disappointment from fans than has ever been the case before. With that in mind is it something you will look at again?

 

Rick Parry: Like I said, we are always prepared to look. Nobody?s saying the systems are perfect and as we collect more information then we can become more sophisticated.

 

It is something we have been developing for a number of years and, of course, you have to build up a history. But the policy of attendance at particular cup games has been in place for years.

 

ECHO: There have been allegations that the club has allocated tickets to travel companies. Is there any truth in this?

 

Rick Parry: No tickets have been allocated to any travel agent. The club is allocating all the tickets and that was not always the case on previous occasions, ironically.

 

This has produced a considerable amount of pressure on us from travel agents who put a significant amount of money down, up front, to secure flights.

 

But we have been absolutely scrupulous in saying we have to control the allocation of the tickets. We can?t give any tickets to agents.

 

ECHO: One final time. Is there any way you could let us know any details of the numbers involved in the ballot?

 

Rick Parry: No. I don?t think we will because we have never given out numbers in the past and there is nothing new or mystical this time round.

 

We have never given a breakdown of where cup final tickets have gone.

 

We haven?t allocated them on any different basis this time We have been entirely consistent in the treatment and to develop a witchhunt of why did those tickets go there? I don?t think it would serve any useful purpose.

 

Just to repeat, there are only two numbers that are materially different to Istanbul. One being the number of tickets we got and the second being a substantial increase, probably a doubling, in the number of people who have actually been to six games because people have realised and cottoned on that we do allocate tickets in this way.

 

But the root of it is the that problem essentially lies with not getting enough tickets in the first place. That?s a frustration that we all share.

[johngibo YPC]

"Rick Parry: I?m not going to go into the breakdown of the 17,000 tickets because I don?t think that serves any useful purpose. It isn?t going to produce any more tickets.?"

 

Crap answer in my opinion

What are you scared of Rick?

[Ramón Benítez Hernández]

He sounds like a politician.

[Mick_G]

Give us the figures or be forced to resign you clown.

[nrkintheuk]

He sounds like a politician.

 

Was just thinking that - answers's the questions he feels like answering. Nothing he has said here makes me want to repeatedly punch him in the face any less

[theredfella]

"Rick Parry: I?m not going to go into the breakdown of the 17,000 tickets because I don?t think that serves any useful purpose. It isn?t going to produce any more tickets.?"

 

Crap answer in my opinion

What are you scared of Rick?

 

Great point.

 

"I don?t think that serves any useful purpose"

 

You might not, Rick, but we f*cking do .

 

The whole thing stinks, a proverbial can of just waiting to be opened....

[Guest Marshy]

Give us the figures or be forced to resign you clown.

 

The point is though that we've never done that in the past so why do it now? I'm certainly not saying he shouldn't release the figures but maybe if he did the supporters wouldn't like what they see whatever way they're broken down. As he said there are dozens of ways we could distribute the tickets and there's always some who won't like the outcome they choose to come up with - and there's always some who'll moan even if it was the perfect system.

[JohnnyH]

Interesting thread title given that he didn't answer what everyone considers to be the main question.

[Mick_G]

With so few tickets and such a fuss about where they have gone , i don't think anyone will be appeased until they see transparency from the club over the actual breakdown of where the tickets have gone.

 

Just my opinion like .

[downunder]

He also says what they have done was publicised at the beginning of the season, it's just nobody took notice of that then.

[Guest PaulMcC]

Everyone wants to know where the tickets went, that's the point in answering the question.

[Rico]

I'm upset at not getting a ticket, but it's plain to anyone with an ounce of brain that when demand outstrips supply, not everyone can be satisfied. It's a problem this year because so many of us have 6 credits. It wasn't a problem in 2005 (I got a ticket to Istanbul with 5 credits). We want to see the numbers because we want to be able to shout, kick and scream about how unfair it all is, but the reality is that releasing those numbers won't help us, and won't make us feel any better about it.

 

I think Parry's point about people going to the unglamourous early games being squeezed out for semi-final & finals tickets is fair, and a fair argument against cross-competition loyalty. With cross-competition loyalty, those that go to the early ties could still end up behind those that go to quarter-finals or better across more than one cup.

 

It's still UEFA that are the root of the problem - that and the popularity of our club. But popularity is a by-product of success, so that should be seen as a good thing.

[DanielS]

Only 27% of the stadium capacity has been made available to Liverpool. That's the real scandal. Why people are after Parry is beyond me. Its Mr Platini and his irksome cronies at UEFA people should be addressing vitriol against.

[Cobs]

"Rick Parry: I?m not going to go into the breakdown of the 17,000 tickets because I don?t think that serves any useful purpose. It isn?t going to produce any more tickets.?"

 

Crap answer in my opinion

What are you scared of Rick?

you want the truth ?

 

you can't handle the truth !

[Cunny]

The club have been put in a tough position by UEFA (I think everyone appreciates that) but they have compounded it with the selling arrangements and lack of transparency.

The other point I'd like to ask Parry is why it took till 3 days after the semi-final to even make a vague announcement on selling plans. That should have all been planned out prior to the semi-final and put on the website on the Tuesday night and be in The Post and Echo for the Wednesday. Therefore, fans would know the score before booking flights, hotels and packages.

[Cobs]

The club have been put in a tough position by UEFA (I think everyone appreciates that) but they have compounded it with the selling arrangements and lack of transparency.

The other point I'd like to ask Parry is why it took till 3 days after the semi-final to even make a vague announcement on selling plans. That should have all been planned out prior to the semi-final and put on the website on the Tuesday night and be in The Post and Echo for the Wednesday. Therefore, fans would know the score before booking flights, hotels and packages.

mockers ?

 

Everyone wants to know where the tickets went, that's the point in answering the question.

the answer is obviously of some embarassment to the club, fact remains there simply aren't enough tickets to go round

[Kite]

I'm upset at not getting a ticket, but it's plain to anyone with an ounce of brain that when demand outstrips supply, not everyone can be satisfied. It's a problem this year because so many of us have 6 credits. It wasn't a problem in 2005 (I got a ticket to Istanbul with 5 credits). We want to see the numbers because we want to be able to shout, kick and scream about how unfair it all is, but the reality is that releasing those numbers won't help us, and won't make us feel any better about it.

 

I think Parry's point about people going to the unglamourous early games being squeezed out for semi-final & finals tickets is fair, and a fair argument against cross-competition loyalty. With cross-competition loyalty, those that go to the early ties could still end up behind those that go to quarter-finals or better across more than one cup.

 

It's still UEFA that are the root of the problem - that and the popularity of our club. But popularity is a by-product of success, so that should be seen as a good thing.

I think you're spot on there. If they do release figures, it isn't going to appease anyone that hasn't a ticket. It will just mean more antipathy towards those in other categories. The club has to pick a system and stick with it. They've done that. Now the next thing is to lobby as hard as possible for more ticket allocation. The key thing to me is that Uefa have given themselves more tickets than they gave to the individual clubs which is what I think truly sucks here big time and should be changed.

[Jim Price]

"Rick Parry: I?m not going to go into the breakdown of the 17,000 tickets because I don?t think that serves any useful purpose. It isn?t going to produce any more tickets.?"

That's disgraceful that.

 

"Yes m'lud I did shoot and kill the man, but we can't bring him back can we, so why are we wasting our time here..."

[Mike E]

Everyone wants to know where the tickets went, that's the point in answering the question.

 

A poster called Donut on RAWK has checked upwards of 278k fancards (see the YNWA - apparent proof thread)

 

His breakdown is looking like:

 

3267 to fancards with 7+

5918 to fancards with 6

7594 elsewhere

16779 total

 

so

 

9185 to qualifying fancard holders (54.7%)

7594 elsewhere (45.3%)

 

Regardless of how many tickets we were allocated I would have expected the split to be closer to 65/35.

 

I still think that cardholders qualifying for the ballot should have been invited to enter the ballot in order to avoid people who already knew they couldn't go to Athens being awarded tickets. At least Rick stated that tickets not taken up by the eligible go back into the LFC pot and could be re-balloted. I thought they went into UEFA's big pot.

[Christine]

I think it?s a disgrace that he won?t say where the seventeen thousand tickets have gone, what?s his problem? What?s he hiding? If he thinks they?ve done the right thing by the fans then why not come out and tell us where the tickets went.

 

Refusing to come clean because they?ve not had to in the past is the lamest (is that a real word?) excuse I can think of, he?s a f***ing joke.

[Guest JayMc]

Don't remember this much whinging over tickets for any final before, even though it's always been the same.

 

Protests? Give me a break.

 

I missed out on 2, big deal. I'll still be going and getting one somehow, like I've had to in the past.

 

It sounds like too many season ticket holders, who wouldn't normally even bother going to the Euro games, signed up for the ACS and their eyes lit up when we got to the final. Tough.

 

Sick of it all now to be honest, we've got a European Cup to win.

[Guest Marshy]

Don't remember this much whinging over tickets for any final before, even though it's always been the same.

 

Protests? Give me a break.

 

I missed out on 2, big deal. I'll still be going and getting one somehow, like I've had to in the past.

 

It sounds like too many season ticket holders, who wouldn't normally even bother going to the Euro games, signed up for the ACS and their eyes lit up when we got to the final. Tough.

 

Sick of it all now to be honest, we've got a European Cup to win.

 

I agree it does appear to be whinging season ticket holders who are causing all the fuss but i've said before and i'll say it again - they have every right to whinge as they are super duper fans.

[Rico]

they have every right to whinge as they are super duper fans.

 

I hope that's tounge in cheek, if not outright sarcasm. There are plenty of "super duper fans" that are not season ticket holders. Who's the bigger fan, a ST holder for whom £600 is a week's pay, who gets his ticket without any effort, or the low-waged guy that denies himself other pleasures or even essentials simply to get a ticket, stands in the rain at the TO, spends hours trying to get through on the phone, whatever. I really dislike this idea that ST holders are somehow "better fans" simply because they're ST holders. I of course accept that amongst ST holders there are likely to be many for whom £600 is a lot of money, but there will also be those that see £600 as relative "loose change" and don't even attend all the games they have tickets for.

[owenthomas]

can't see what releasing the amount of tickets in the ballot and elsewhere would achieve - people are saying come clean about it cos they just want transparency but if it was found to be only, say, 5000 tickets in the ballot there'd be even more of an uproar..

 

i don't see what the club could have done given the pitiful allocation cos someone somewhere would find fault.. all this anger and frustration should be going towards UEFA in my opinion..

[Frosty Jack]

i don't see what the club could have done given the pitiful allocation cos someone somewhere would find fault.. all this anger and frustration should be going towards UEFA in my opinion..

 

exactly, it can't be helpful in the clubs preparations, there's a final to win and UEFA are responsible for there not being enough tickets, not Rick Parry