Mascherano

[knoxy67]

Hey guy's take it easy on me, i'm a long time browser, but thought it was time to post a thought.

Here goes, doe's anyone else think that Rafa is giving Mascherano time to adjust to life at Anfield, in the same way he did last year with Agger and we've seen the advantages of that already.

Also during the summer window with just a few buy's which are not unrealistic we could have a more than useful 3-5-2 system next season.

 

Reina

 

Carra Woodgate? Agger

 

Alves? Xabi Mascherano Aurelio

 

Gerrard

 

Eto/Villa? Kuyt

 

 

Any thoughts or am i completely deluded

 

Mods feel free to move this or delete if you see fit, it's just me being a newbie

[londonkopite]

It would be a step back to have Aurelio at Left midfield, but I do think that Alonso is more than just a holding player. Should we get the right type of forward at the club next season than I can see Gerrard in a free role. Sounds odd but a Mascherano/Gerrard midifeld sounds perfect.

[Stevie H]

i think rafa's formation of choice will always be a default 4-4-2. he'll change it for specific matches in certain circumstances but 4-4-2 is the best formation for this league.

[psl]

Don't think he's giving him time to settle. Since he got here we've had four games. He was never going to play in either of the Barca ties or at home to United and he played in the other game.

 

Think we'll see him regularly from now on.

[Cooger]

I think it will be mainly 4-4-2 next season. He likes having options and we have seen 4-5-1, 3-5-2 this season but mainly 4-4-2.

 

I like Woodgate and Rafa has made a bid for him in the past and might do again. When fit not too many players around better. He could offer top competition for Agger and Carragher. With maybe Paletta going on loan to get some experience.

 

The good thing about the 3-5-2 system is it could get the best out of Gerrard as he would almost have a free role. But for the system to really work and to justify playing it over other formations 'week in', 'week out' you do have to have two 'special' wingbacks. Alves would be one, but I can't see him joining.

 

If Rafa wasn't willing to pay over the odds last summer why would he do it now? Alves would cost more than last summer. Plus Sevilla don't need to sell unless they get a ridiculous bid as they have got big money over the seasons from Ramos, Baptista and Reyes.

[psl]

I think it will be mainly 4-4-2 next season. He likes having options and we have seen 4-5-1, 3-5-2 this season but mainly 4-4-2.

 

I like Woodgate and Rafa has made a bid for him in the past and might do again. When fit not too many players around better. He could offer top competition for Agger and Carragher. With maybe Paletta going on loan to get some experience.

 

The good thing about the 3-5-2 system is it could get the best out of Gerrard as he would almost have a free role. But for the system to really work and to justify playing it over other formations 'week in', 'week out' you do have to have two 'special' wingbacks. Alves would be one, but I can't see him joining.

 

If Rafa wasn't willing to pay over the odds last summer why would he do it now? Alves would cost more than last summer. Plus Sevilla don't need to sell unless they get a ridiculous bid as they have got big money over the seasons from Ramos, Baptista and Reyes.

 

Because he has more money available now and fewer positions to fill?

 

Would be very surprised if Rafa wasn't in for Alves.

[Mike]

momos banned for the next cl game so i expect to see masch in that

[knoxy67]

Thanks for taking it easy on me. I was thinking more along the lines of Alves and Aurelio as wingbacks, which would give Stevie and Xabi more room, like i said i could be delusional, it wouldn't be the first time i being called that.

I live in Oz now so it's hard to get a decent discussion with most Aussies, cos they only care about Harry's latest injury and the yard dog Cahill.

[Cooger]

Fewer positions to fill? Maybe.

 

But if you look round the boards people want few changes. However they also feel we need back up for centre back, a left back, left wing, right wing and a striker. I personally agree we don't need too many changes, but others won't agree. I'd rather 2 or 3 right moves rather than 6 or 7 that could upset the balance and hinder our season start just like this season and the last.

 

I can't see Rafa going in for Alves. I feel he will move on to another target, plenty of players around. For starters Alves is a right back, big difference playing right mid to right back. You have the luxury of more time and space on the ball at right back. You can overlap and pick the right times to attack. At right mid you get the ball and are expected to beat a player, I haven't seen Alves play right mid, so I think this is a risk.

 

I also don't feel Rafa will change his transfer policy, just because he has more money. I can't see him over spending and paying over the odds. I feel he will offer reasonable fees, what he feels a player is worth. With Sevilla not needing to sell I don't see us getting Alves for a reasonable fee. Especially with Barca and Chelsea interested.

[Mike]

alves is a right back like gerrard is a defensive midfielder.

[Cooger]

alves is a right back like gerrard is a defensive midfielder.

 

Agree with this.

 

Reminds me of Heggem in that respect.

Edited March 11, 2007 by Hydie

[Falconhoof]

momos banned for the next cl game so i expect to see masch in that

 

 

Rafa will probably start him against Villa next week to get him ready, then play Momo against Arsenal.

[knoxy67]

Mike,

That's why i would class Alves and Aurelio as wingbacks, they get defensive support from Mascherano and the 3 CB's

[Cooger]

Mike,

That's why i would class Alves and Aurelio as wingbacks, they get defensive support from Mascherano and the 3 CB's

 

Don't get me wrong Knoxy it is a very good team. However I have my doubts over 3-5-2. Not too many teams have won titles playing that formation regularly. I like it as an option, but not the first or main one.

[knoxy67]

Mate i agree it couldn't be used all the time, but against most of the SMALL clubs i think it could be more effective,as has been evident on occasions this season, i just don't think we have enough quality in this squad to use it as much as Rafa would like to.

Anyway thanks again guys for not slaughtering my 1st post

[Cooger]

Mate i agree it couldn't be used all the time, but against most of the SMALL clubs i think it could be more effective,as has been evident on occasions this season, i just don't think we have enough quality in this squad to use it as much as Rafa would like to.

Anyway thanks again guys for not slaughtering my 1st post

 

Rafa has shown that he wants to attack down the wings. He did this at Valencia and he has said this here. I'm not sure 3-5-2 is the best way to do this. One of our problems this season is having cutting edge down the flanks. Pennant struggled at the beginning of the season with this. Plus no one has offered anything down the left all season in the league. With Houiller everything was narrow going down the centre. 3-5-2 would appear to make the team more narrow than 4-4-2 or even 4-5-1 / 4-2-3-1. I just feel Rafa wants his teams to have wingers, which isn't really 3-5-2.

[Mondavi]

Mate i agree it couldn't be used all the time, but against most of the SMALL clubs i think it could be more effective,as has been evident on occasions this season, i just don't think we have enough quality in this squad to use it as much as Rafa would like to.

Anyway thanks again guys for not slaughtering my 1st post

 

 

exactly right. we've played 3 at the back against sides that play 4-5-1 against us, and I think that will continue next season. alves and aurelio are excellent for the widespots in that instance. expect 4-4-2 to be the more used formation though, in which case you can have alves or gerrard at right mid, and aurelio at LB.

 

the 3 new players you mention would all be good additions, and certainly give rafa the personnel to allow for all his possibilities.

[Rimbeux]

It would be a step back to have Aurelio at Left midfield, but I do think that Alonso is more than just a holding player. Should we get the right type of forward at the club next season than I can see Gerrard in a free role. Sounds odd but a Mascherano/Gerrard midifeld sounds perfect.

 

i think it could be the nuts

 

 

I think it will be mainly 4-4-2 next season. He likes having options and we have seen 4-5-1, 3-5-2 this season but mainly 4-4-2.

 

I like Woodgate and Rafa has made a bid for him in the past and might do again. When fit not too many players around better. He could offer top competition for Agger and Carragher. With maybe Paletta going on loan to get some experience.

 

The good thing about the 3-5-2 system is it could get the best out of Gerrard as he would almost have a free role. But for the system to really work and to justify playing it over other formations 'week in', 'week out' you do have to have two 'special' wingbacks. Alves would be one, but I can't see him joining.

If Rafa wasn't willing to pay over the odds last summer why would he do it now? Alves would cost more than last summer. Plus Sevilla don't need to sell unless they get a ridiculous bid as they have got big money over the seasons from Ramos, Baptista and Reyes.

 

I think it's more a case of having a budget and spreading it accordingly, remember paying over the odds was not an issue for Pennant

[Knox_Harrington]

Fewer positions to fill? Maybe.

 

But if you look round the boards people want few changes. However they also feel we need back up for centre back, a left back, left wing, right wing and a striker. I personally agree we don't need too many changes, but others won't agree. I'd rather 2 or 3 right moves rather than 6 or 7 that could upset the balance and hinder our season start just like this season and the last.

 

I can't see Rafa going in for Alves. I feel he will move on to another target, plenty of players around. For starters Alves is a right back, big difference playing right mid to right back. You have the luxury of more time and space on the ball at right back. You can overlap and pick the right times to attack. At right mid you get the ball and are expected to beat a player, I haven't seen Alves play right mid, so I think this is a risk.

alves is a right back like gerrard is a defensive midfielder.

Agree it's two or three moves. If Kewell comes back it's two. If he can't it might be three but even then we have Leto coming in. Add Voronin to that and the question is do we want to blood five? I think/hope Alves, a centre forward of goalscoring renown, Leto and Voronin. Insua, Riise and Aurelio to battle it out for leftback. Riise dodges the axe again! No matter how good the players were I'd be a little disappointed if we brought four or five in on top of Leto and Voronin because we can't afford another slow start.

 

Alves would be fantastic at right mid, not least because his experience at right back means he can put his foot in and offer good cover. Looks like he beats people for fun. It offers that 343/3412 more formation as well (as would the return of Kewell to play as the 1).

[Cooger]

i think it could be the nuts

I think it's more a case of having a budget and spreading it accordingly, remember paying over the odds was not an issue for Pennant

 

Did we pay over the odds for Pennant?

 

He's young, English and a talent. He has set up many goals this season and has played really well since the Bolton game. Started the season slowly, but so did the whole squad pretty much.

 

I agree he had a budget and spent in accordingly. For example if he bought Alves it would have meant no Kuyt. But I don't think he will pay over the odds, which is what he would have to do for Alves.

[Rimbeux]

Did we pay over the odds for Pennant?

 

He's young, English and a talent. He has set up many goals this season and has played really well since the Bolton game. Started the season slowly, but so did the whole squad pretty much.

 

I agree he had a budget and spent in accordingly. For example if he bought Alves it would have meant no Kuyt. But I don't think he will pay over the odds, which is what he would have to do for Alves.

 

 

I personally think it's all about budget, not morals. The initial valuation for JP was, as far as I can make out £5m, and going above that, as with Crouch was no problem. As you say, Alves probably meeans no Kuyt, or in more convoluted style, Alves means no Aurelio, Bellamy and Arbeloa. I think thaat's where the managers head is at, a player becomes too expensive when he stops him getting in another or others on the list, a player is worth the extra as long as he doesn't stop others coming.

[Cooger]

I personally think it's all about budget, not morals.

 

I think it is both with Rafa.

 

Didn't we see this with Simao?

[Rimbeux]

I think it is both with Rafa.

 

Didn't we see this with Simao?

 

 

Again, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the scenario was that we'd agreed a price, he was at the airport, and fan outcry led them to ask for deal buggering money that we just didn't have. Call me cynical but it sounds a lot better to say to the masses 'we will not pay over the odds' that to say 'we didn't have the cash'. For me, there is enough evidence of us paying over the top when we can to more than suggest the moral stance is not much more than posturing.

Edited March 11, 2007 by Rimbeux

[kacangpool]

How come Luis is often ommitted from formation threads these days? I know he's injured atm but he's vital, especially in the CL.

[Cooger]

I think it showed -

 

a) We won't et messed around by other clubs.

b) Maybe he wasn't worth that much.