Superb players needed

[Guest Barcamania]

In order to win the league you need superb attacking players. They put a lot of pressure on the opposition and they don't have much time to attack-------> classy attacking players help both attacking and "defending"

Pennant? He was never something special. Bellamy? No, I think some superb attacking players are needed, that could make the difference.

Rafa is a great coach, one of the best, BUT he overestimates his methods and underestimates players role.

His Valencia was in shambles for 2 years when he left, but look now, they are AGAIN top side. Why? Yes, Flores is a good coach, but me thinks that Valencia players ALWAYS were classsy and nothing changed. Even departure of Aimar didn't change anything, as they have Silva, Gavilan, Regeiro, Angulo, Estoyanoff and now even Joaquin...

In short, LFC has really superb players only in central midfield, other players are good, but nowhere superb.

PS IMHO

[Ibby]

would be nice if we had a spare £22m or so lying around so we could buy a ronaldinho like you guys did but it doesnt work like that im afraid

[Maldini]

You need good players to win things. Genius. Thanks for that.

[4411]

would be nice if we had a spare £22m or so lying around so we could buy a ronaldinho like you guys did but it doesnt work like that im afraid

 

Worked like that in the old days when we could break the bank for Dalglish, Beardsley, Barnes...

 

how times have changed

[Guest flaps]

You need good players to win things. Genius. Thanks for that.

 

I've seen the thread you started, what a valuable contribution to the board you have made. Bravo.

 

I thought this was an interesting point

 

Rafa is a great coach, one of the best, BUT he overestimates his methods and underestimates players role

 

could be up for debate but be sure to seek approval from maldini first.

[Maldini]

I've seen the thread you started, what a valuable contribution to the board you have made. Bravo.

 

I thought this was an interesting point

could be up for debate but be sure to seek approval from maldini first.

Thanks for the recognition.

 

It's not an interesting point.

 

None of the "superb" players at Valencia he mentions are better than ours, only Joaquin would come close to getting into our team.

 

Rafa is doing the best with the money he had and Pennant and Bellamy were the best we could get in the summer. Both were sh*te today, but they weren't alone and they are both good players.

[Guest Barcamania]

Thanks for the recognition.

 

It's not an interesting point.

 

None of the "superb" players at Valencia he mentions are better than ours, only Joaquin would come close to getting into our team.

 

Rafa is doing the best with the money he had and Pennant and Bellamy were the best we could get in the summer. Both were sh*te today, but they weren't alone and they are both good players.

Oh really?

Aimar was better than any of your players. Now, they have Vicente and Joaquin, who are, IMO, better than any attacking player at LFC.

The attacking players here aren't good enough to challenge title, Arsenal, ManU and Chelsea have better attacking players.

In short, Bellamy, Pennant etc. are good, but if they were good enough, they would have shown their quality in their previous clubs.

I would say LFC is a good team just because of midfield and to some extent defend. Othe parts are average.

 

 

None of the "superb" players at Valencia he mentions are better than ours, only Joaquin would come close to getting into our team.

 

Rafa is doing the best with the money he had and Pennant and Bellamy were the best we could get in the summer. Both were sh*te today, but they weren't alone and they are both good players.

I forgot to mention Villa, who is better than any attacking player at LFC as well.

And about Rafa in the market. Instead of buying 30 players, IMO, it would have been better to buy 3-4 real quality players. Arrival of Ronaldinho changed everything in Barca. Then after that season, EtoO and Devo were bought.

How many players did Rafa buy here? 20-30 must be. But WHY? Buy real quality, may be 2-3 players, but that would be enough. He spent 70 mln if I remember correctly. You can buy 3-4 quality players for that amount

[Knox_Harrington]

Kuyt and Crouch have both looked excellent and Garcia is an excellent player. Bellamy did show it with his previous club - but hasn't shown it yet here - and Pennant is a good young talent and isn't first choice right mid anyway. That's Steven Gerrard. He isn't bad. Gonzalez looked very good in La Liga last season and has already provided two goals for us this.

 

The one thing I would like to see is the next few league games be marked out with Gerrard right and Gonzalez left with Crouch and Kuyt up front.

[windy city red]

Oh really?

Aimar was better than any of your players. Now, they have Vicente and Joaquin, who are, IMO, better than any attacking player at LFC.

The attacking players here aren't good enough to challenge title, Arsenal, ManU and Chelsea have better attacking players.

In short, Bellamy, Pennant etc. are good, but if they were good enough, they would have shown their quality in their previous clubs.

I would say LFC is a good team just because of midfield and to some extent defend. Othe parts are average.

I forgot to mention Villa, who is better than any attacking player at LFC as well.

And about Rafa in the market. Instead of buying 30 players, IMO, it would have been better to buy 3-4 real quality players. Arrival of Ronaldinho changed everything in Barca. Then after that season, EtoO and Devo were bought.

How many players did Rafa buy here? 20-30 must be. But WHY? Buy real quality, may be 2-3 players, but that would be enough. He spent 70 mln if I remember correctly. You can buy 3-4 quality players for that amount

 

I am too tired to write a whole lot so I will just pick on one point.

The overhaul was because our previous crop of players werent very good to being with, maybe? just a guess of course.

[Maldini]

Oh really?

Aimar was better than any of your players. Now, they have Vicente and Joaquin, who are, IMO, better than any attacking player at LFC.

The attacking players here aren't good enough to challenge title, Arsenal, ManU and Chelsea have better attacking players.

In short, Bellamy, Pennant etc. are good, but if they were good enough, they would have shown their quality in their previous clubs.

I would say LFC is a good team just because of midfield and to some extent defend. Othe parts are average.

I forgot to mention Villa, who is better than any attacking player at LFC as well.

And about Rafa in the market. Instead of buying 30 players, IMO, it would have been better to buy 3-4 real quality players. Arrival of Ronaldinho changed everything in Barca. Then after that season, EtoO and Devo were bought.

How many players did Rafa buy here? 20-30 must be. But WHY? Buy real quality, may be 2-3 players, but that would be enough. He spent 70 mln if I remember correctly. You can buy 3-4 quality players for that amount

You didn't mention Vicente above. He's the best LM in the world IMO. Joaquin is hugely talented, but too inconsistent. Bellamy played well for Newcastle in the past and even moreso for Blackburn last year, I would have preferred another player TBH, but he's a good player. Pennant has been poor the last few games, but I really rate him, he'll come good.

 

Rafa has bought so many players because we needed that many players. I think now that we have a good squad January and/or next summer will see us bring in top class players.

 

Kuyt and Crouch have both looked excellent and Garcia is an excellent player. Bellamy did show it with his previous club - but hasn't shown it yet here - and Pennant is a good young talent and isn't first choice right mid anyway. That's Steven Gerrard. He isn't bad. Gonzalez looked very good in La Liga last season and has already provided two goals for us this.

 

The one thing I would like to see is the next few league games be marked out with Gerrard right and Gonzalez left with Crouch and Kuyt up front.

Agreed

[Lark]

problem remains we still dont know what are best 11 are.

 

our best keeper is now being debated

whats the best back four? agger? hyypia? warnock riise? etc

whats our first choice midfield? where to play gerrard?

whats our best strike force?

 

still to many problem areas and question marks about our team, formation and tactics. it's one thing to lose agame to players under performing or s**** reffing decisions but i feel we are beating ourselves with baffling tactics and not knowing from one week to the next what our best 11 r.

 

you say pennant isnt first choice right mid and that gerrard is, but wot about alves? alves would have been nice signing but where does gerrard play then? in the middle but where does that leave momo and alonso? is sg now a left midfielder? what about kewell? gonzales, jar and garcia as left midfielders? ok so play sg offa striker? so which two strikers(if you can call em that) miss out.

 

all possibilities? - my a*** - all stop gaps and fill ins - and make do's -and excuses

 

We need to start signing first choice players for the positions that need to be filled.

[yellow jumper]

we do struggle more than the other top sides when we go behind, to be fair.

 

think it's a question of finding that balance as we look to play a more expansive game. defensively we've dropped a level and that eases pressure on an opposition (even if they're not seeing much of the ball), and also on our forward players who are then always looking to do that little bit extra.

 

in all the away games we've lost i'd say we looked the better side for the most part. if you edited the goals out of those games and watched a tape back you'd see we were playing the more dominant football.

[Lark]

sign joey barton for showing his a*** to the bitters.

[Guest JV]

sign joey barton for showing his a*** to the bitters.

good ad

[Guest Barcamania]

You didn't mention Vicente above. He's the best LM in the world IMO. Joaquin is hugely talented, but too inconsistent. Bellamy played well for Newcastle in the past and even moreso for Blackburn last year, I would have preferred another player TBH, but he's a good player. Pennant has been poor the last few games, but I really rate him, he'll come good.

 

Rafa has bought so many players because we needed that many players. I think now that we have a good squad January and/or next summer will see us bring in top class players.

Agreed

OK, I'm not gonna argue with you alot. But it is 3rd year of Rafa. I rated him as best coach in the world for years, now I think he's "only" one of the best. Why? Because it seems he can't buy needed players, he just doesn't want to pay extra 1-2 millions FOR ANY player. So how would you expect to win the league with these players? Most of games are played against s**** opponents and what you have to do is just get 3 points. If your attack is good, even with a weaker midfield you can win. Look at ManU, their midfield is poor and against any top team they will struggle I believe. But look at their league position, they're one of the leaders!!! Why? Because they just attack s**** teams and get 3 points.

Tactical game is an important thing. But LFC can't attack efficiently when needed. You can't expect to challenge the title like this.

I don't blame Rafa's tactics, I blame only one thing, WHY NOT PAY EXTRA MILLIONS TO BUY REAL QUALITY?

Hell, even 3rd choice Arsenal striker is better than most of LFC attackers

Now, it was clear that some attacking players were needed 2 seasons now. I don't mean forwards, I mean players who create clear cut chances. Rafa bought/signed 3-4 players for those positions, none of them good enough to play in starting line up. Even if they play, they're average: Zenden, Gonzalez, Pennant, Bellamy, Aurelio. I believe they wouldn't play in first 11 at Arsenal, ManU or Chelsea(Gonzalez didn't make it here yet, so except than him. Let's see what happens).

Nowadays I watch Valencia a lot and they still play the same football to some extent. I think that style of play could win league title in England. But it seems it's hard to find good players to play that kind of football here...

 

 

we do struggle more than the other top sides when we go behind, to be fair.

 

think it's a question of finding that balance as we look to play a more expansive game. defensively we've dropped a level and that eases pressure on an opposition (even if they're not seeing much of the ball), and also on our forward players who are then always looking to do that little bit extra.

 

in all the away games we've lost i'd say we looked the better side for the most part. if you edited the goals out of those games and watched a tape back you'd see we were playing the more dominant football.

it happens alot to spanish national team. They couldn't achieve anything, the only thing is they play good football

[Martian]

Rafa has the players he needs. He's just not using them right. Crouch comes into today's game full of confidence. Whay did he start on the bench? Where is Gonzalez? Why buy him if we don't intend to use him? Gonzalez on the left of midfield, Gerrard on the right and Crouch up front partnering Kuyt would have been a better option. yes, and I would have rather paid 2million more to get Alvez rather than Pennant.

[Guest AnfieldGrass]

How is it that fans from Barca suddnely know what is needed to win a friggng premiership in England? How does that work exactly? Where were you after we thrashed Newcastle, Spurs and outclassed Gala? It's all bloody talk, as soon as we are seen as struggling, out come the experts out of the woodwork to tell us we don't have the right players. Pure genius! As far as criticising Rafa, I think we all know what he is capable of and if he had Barca's players no doubt he would win the Spanish League also. the fact he did it with a smaller club at Valencia, then the CL at LFC makes it all the more special.

 

We just had a MAJOR overhaul of the squad ffs, and by and large for the better. We are NOT Barca, we are NOT Chelsea, we do NOT have the same kind of money as them. We are spending wisely, and for the good of the squad. This IS A GOOD SQUAD, it is just not clicking atm. It is a far better looking squad than the 2005 one and we won the bleeding CL that year! And the FA Cup the year after! We are just not clicking yet, and in my opinion lacking a bit of leadership on the pitch. it has nothing to do with quality. Knee-jerks fans do not help matters.

 

Having said all that, even if a club does fork out the big money for the big talents, it is NO GUARANTEE that they will work out. it happens on a consistant basis, foreign players come here and can't cut the mustard. Cisse, Morientes just recently. Shevchenko anyone? Ballack? b******s more like.

[Guest Barcamania]

We are NOT Barca, we are NOT Chelsea, we do NOT have the same kind of money as them. We are spending wisely, and for the good of the squad. This IS A GOOD SQUAD, it is just not clicking atm. It is a far better looking squad than the 2005 one and we won the bleeding CL that year! And the FA Cup the year after!

Having said all that, even if a club does fork out the big money for the big talents, it is NO GUARANTEE that they will work out. it happens on a consistant basis, foreign players come here and can't cut the mustard. Cisse, Morientes just recently. Shevchenko anyone? Ballack? b******s more like.

I know, but talking about Barca, I'm pretty sure that Barca didn't spend more than LFC for last 3-4 years. NEVER! Bought 3 real quality players(Deco, Ronaldinho, EtoO) and sold more than 10 players. In fact, as far as I know LFC has spent more. You're right, big money players could be flop, but I still don't know why Rafa can't get something specail. I mean look at Arsenal, Wenger finds right players for right prices all the time. But it seems Rafa would never pay 1-2 millions extra...

I know, most of signings are for future. But future might not happen if things go on like this. Paletta and Gonzalez might be good players, but if they won't play, why buy them?? Pennant? Zenden? Nunez, Barragan etc.

There are only 2 clubs in the world who have almost 2 complete sides: Inter and Chelsea. Other teams have definite 11. LFC hasn't that eleven, I mean even if you put out, you see holes, not classy players in it. I would say LFC has 3-4 classy players and 17 average players. Instead, Rafa could buy real quality I guess.

Well, I know things are more complicated than we see. But try your luck on players like Pennant, Bellamy etc. TO WIN LEAGUE is utopia. The thing is, you don't need 22 players, you just need good 11 and youngsters, IMO. 2 years passed since Rafa came and there are many similar problems here - there are no classy attacking players, some players aren't good enough for championship winning team.

This is my opinion. You could argue. But even Rafa(Lippi, Capello, put here any name) won't win league without right(classy) players and as I see, there's lack of classy players here, especially attacking players.

PS If you want, name me any attacking player from LFC, who could make to starting 11 of top 3 teams in Spain, Italy or England. Simply no one...

[Guest paisley3]

I am too tired to write a whole lot so I will just pick on one point.

The overhaul was because our previous crop of players werent very good to being with, maybe? just a guess of course.

 

 

Good enough to win the European Cup.

[Guest AnfieldGrass]

I know, but talking about Barca, I'm pretty sure that Barca didn't spend more than LFC for last 3-4 years. NEVER! Bought 3 real quality players(Deco, Ronaldinho, EtoO) and sold more than 10 players. In fact, as far as I know LFC has spent more. You're right, big money players could be flop, but I still don't know why Rafa can't get something specail. I mean look at Arsenal, Wenger finds right players for right prices all the time. But it seems Rafa would never pay 1-2 millions extra...

I know, most of signings are for future. But future might not happen if things go on like this. Paletta and Gonzalez might be good players, but if they won't play, why buy them?? Pennant? Zenden? Nunez, Barragan etc.

There are only 2 clubs in the world who have almost 2 complete sides: Inter and Chelsea. Other teams have definite 11. LFC hasn't that eleven, I mean even if you put out, you see holes, not classy players in it. I would say LFC has 3-4 classy players and 17 average players. Instead, Rafa could buy real quality I guess.

Well, I know things are more complicated than we see. But try your luck on players like Pennant, Bellamy etc. TO WIN LEAGUE is utopia. The thing is, you don't need 22 players, you just need good 11 and youngsters, IMO. 2 years passed since Rafa came and there are many similar problems here - there are no classy attacking players, some players aren't good enough for championship winning team.

This is my opinion. You could argue. But even Rafa(Lippi, Capello, put here any name) won't win league without right(classy) players and as I see, there's lack of classy players here, especially attacking players.

PS If you want, name me any attacking player from LFC, who could make to starting 11 of top 3 teams in Spain, Italy or England. Simply no one...

 

Sorry to say this pal, but you're full of s***. No need to explain why, it should be evident from your post. Try checking facts for a start.

[Big G Superhero]

Rafa has the players he needs. He's just not using them right. Crouch comes into today's game full of confidence. Whay did he start on the bench? Where is Gonzalez? Why buy him if we don't intend to use him? Gonzalez on the left of midfield, Gerrard on the right and Crouch up front partnering Kuyt would have been a better option. yes, and I would have rather paid 2million more to get Alvez rather than Pennant.

 

Crouch's house had just been robbed

Gonzalez was injured

If we'd have shelled out on Alves we wouldn't have been able to afford Kuyt.

[_00_deathscar]

Sorry to say this pal, but you're full of s***. No need to explain why, it should be evident from your post. Try checking facts for a start.

 

I agree.

[Rimbeux]

Sorry to say this pal, but you're full of s***. No need to explain why, it should be evident from your post. Try checking facts for a start.

 

 

I'm fairly sure he has a point about Barca and spending next to ours, they certainly don't spend more. They go big rather than wide, and got their three marquee players for less than £20m each, and have looked to bosmans and cheap transfers for most of time, such as the close season when Van Bommel and Guilly were the only ins, one free one ?5m. Having won the CL they spent some £20m on two top defenders and a top forward, money they were going to spend on Henry. You can't knock the way they've built, it's to be admired. How you put that in context with LFC is up for debate

[Benzo-13]

A fit and firing Kewell would be a better bet than Vicente. 4yrs ago there was nothing between either of them.

Vicente just hasn't looked the same player he was years ago. Seems the bad injury has hobbled him.

 

BTW: Estyanhoff is on loan to Depor.

 

It's easy for Barcmania to make snap judgements like this when we've lost yesterday but he always points the negative and never the positive (As one lad said he wasn't about last week..)

I think our squad needs time to integrate but it's time we probably don't have at the minute with the media on our backs constantly. When everyone clicks we're gonna tank someone.

Edited October 1, 2006 by Benzo-13

[Guest flaps]

A fit and firing Kewell would be a better bet than Vicente. 4yrs ago there was nothing between either of them.

 

complete drivel.