Video Evidence

[John am Rhein]

has it been established definitively whether this was (or was not) what got Zidane sent off?

[Coyler]

FIFA are adamant it wasn't, but it stinks to high heaven.

[Flasher]

FIFA are adamant it wasn't, but it stinks to high heaven.

 

 

Exactly. Obvious that it was, but they'll never admit to it.

[Coyler]

Love to find video evidence of the FIFA chap looking at the video evidence.

[Gilps]

Don't think we'll ever know for sure.

 

Interestingly radio were pointing out that the TV screens in the stadium had gone down quite some time before the incident.

[Extraordinary Swindle]

Video evidence wasn't used - the Italian players told the referee to talk to the assistant referee because he wasn't convinced by them. He then spoke to the assistant and gave Zidane the straight red afterwards. No conspiracy, just officials doing their jobs properly.

[Coyler]

Video evidence wasn't used - the Italian players told the referee to talk to the assistant referee because he wasn't convinced by them. He then spoke to the assistant and gave Zidane the straight red afterwards. No conspiracy, just officials doing their jobs properly.

Wonder how long the assistant referee was planning to sit on the info. Probably waiting to see if Zidane would take a penno in the shoot-out.

[Knox_Harrington]

Definitely used.

[John am Rhein]

Video evidence wasn't used - the Italian players told the referee to talk to the assistant referee because he wasn't convinced by them. He then spoke to the assistant and gave Zidane the straight red afterwards. No conspiracy, just officials doing their jobs properly.

 

I've heard it claimed that the 4th (or 5th!?!) offcial spoke to the linesman before the linesman spoke to there referee - anyone know if there's any truth in that?

[Tyler]

yes fourth official spoke to the linesman

he doesn't have a tv monitor

 

but fifth official does

 

and aren't they all linked up through head sets

[Ripley]

Video evidence wasn't used - the Italian players told the referee to talk to the assistant referee because he wasn't convinced by them. He then spoke to the assistant and gave Zidane the straight red afterwards. No conspiracy, just officials doing their jobs properly.

The ref clearly (and understandably) hasn't seen it.

 

The 3 match officials can communicate with each other but Elizondo gives no impression of being about to act on anything coming in his ear.

 

He goes across and speaks to the linesman for now long? About half a second.

 

Unless he was just confirming something he had heard in his ear ("You've just told me to red card Zidane for butting an opponent, yes?") in which case a nod of the head is enough, it doesn't add up.

 

Is the 4th official restricted in his duties to matters off the field of play?

[Coyler]

Deadly contemptuous look Zidane gave the ref. He could see the fear in his eyes, he could tell full well that he hadn't got a clue what Zidane had done and he was just doing what he had been told to do. "Who told you to wave your card, little man? Who told you? You f*ck."

[John am Rhein]

Have they provided an alternative explanation for why the 4th official was talking to the linesman?

 

On balance it seems to me that video evidence was, effectively, used to make the decision. But I'm not sure there's anything wrong with that really (?). Trouble is, if it becomes established that video evidence CAN be used during a game then it'll be used to break the flow of the game, evenyone will want THEIR disputed decisions reviewed, etc. etc.

 

Deadly contemptuous look Zidane gave the ref. He could see the fear in his eyes, he could tell full well that he hadn't got a clue what Zidane had done and he was just doing what he had been told to do. "Who told you to wave your card, little man? Who told you? You f*ck."

 

 

Juuuuu-stice!

[Coyler]

Trouble is, if it becomes established that video evidence CAN be used during a game then it'll be used to break the flow of the game, evenyone will want THEIR disputed decisions reviewed, etc. etc.

That's the danger, sure, and also why FIFA will never in a million years admit to it. They were caught lovely, though, they had to do something as it was so blatant (to those watching monitors/televisions).

 

This aspect might have a bit of legs in it.

[Euphrates]

Incident that brings in video evidence? That's a way to end a career!

 

IIRC the fifth official isn't hooked up to the the others by communication is he? And officially the fourth official isn't allowed to influence decisions on the pitch, even though he is in the loop.

[John am Rhein]

That's the danger, sure, and also why FIFA will never in a million years admit to it. They were caught lovely, though, they had to do something as it was so blatant (to those watching monitors/televisions).

 

This aspect might have a bit of legs in it.

 

I suppose the danger was Zidane would go on to score the winning penalty or something...

 

They'd surely have applied some sort of punishment after the match, though. However with Zidane retiring, a suspension wouldn't have made any difference to him and would a fine have been enforceable?

 

IIRC the fifth official isn't hooked up to the the others by communication is he? And officially the fourth official isn't allowed to influence decisions on the pitch, even though he is in the loop.

 

Is that stated on the rules or FIFA regulations?

 

TBH, I don't see why the 4th 5th or 6th official shouldn't influence decisions on the pitch.

 

Just seems hard to envisage how it can be prevented from rapidly becoming unworkable.

[Ripley]

TBH, I don't see why the 4th 5th or 6th official shouldn't influence decisions on the pitch.

But not on the basis of a replayed view, in any event, as it currently stands

[Coyler]

Only if someone really famous does something really shocking.

[John am Rhein]

But not on the basis of a replayed view, in any event, as it currently stands

 

Is that official?

 

I mean, are they supposed (theoretically) to not watch TV monitors in case it influences them or, having been influenced, are they supposed to then make a specifc effort to avoid passing on their views to other officials?

 

Or do the rules simply not say anything either way?

[Ripley]

Is that official?

 

I mean, are they supposed (theoretically) to not watch TV monitors in case it influences them or, having been influenced, are they supposed to then make a specifc effort to avoid passing on their views to other officials?

 

Or do the rules simply not say anything either way?

The Laws of the Game don't, of course, make any reference to it.

 

FIFA's competition regulations are another matter. My understanding has always been that the 4th official's remit extends purely to matters outside the field of field of play, which includes the behaviour of the officials and substitutes of both sides but not anything on the pitch that might be missed by the 3 officials in control of play.

 

At the start of the tournament, I have a distinct memory of a commentator stating that the World Cup had now introduced the concept of the 5th Official, who was appointed purely to cover injury to any of the others during the match.

 

Was this wrong? Have the 5th Officials had an active role rather than just being changed waiting for an injury to a colleague? They never came out with the teams or were visible on the line.

 

Have the 4th Officials even been miked up? I'm sure I remember seeing Markus Merk on the line at one of the semis with no wiring.

 

FIFA, via Blatter, have always set their face against video replays but unless Elizondo got the full incident through his earpiece from his linesman and then eventually went over for the briefest of confirmations, it is hard to avoid the conclusion that Zidane was grassed up by a TV somewhere.

[Coyler]

The linesman -- who in the supposed absence of video evidence is the detecting official here -- is never even claimed to have flagged either, which seems to be a Pollian act of negligence upon witnessing a headbutt to the chest in the World Cup final.

[Cobs]

the linesman didn't see anything - Buffon was having a go at him for not spotting it

[Sir Tokyo Sexwale]

yeah - Buffon was having a right barney & pointing to his eye, as if to say 'surely you saw it'

[Coyler]

But is the ref not supposed to have got confirmation/information from the linesman seeing as the fourth or fifth official are not meant to have come storming pitchside to report what they saw on the monitor?

[John am Rhein]

FIFA's competition regulations are another matter. My understanding has always been that the 4th official's remit extends purely to matters outside the field of field of play, which includes the behaviour of the officials and substitutes of both sides but not anything on the pitch that might be missed by the 3 officials in control of play.

 

A case of the 4th official being supposed to do only what he's explicitly defined as being responsible for?

 

That may well be the case, at least implicitly, but I think there's a lot of scope for more officials getting involved and, particularly getting ONTO the field of play.

 

Only then can they stand a chance of spotting a reasonable portion of the 'cheating' cheating and 'non-cheating' cheating which increasingly seems to be going on at the top level of football.

 

Whether instant TV playback can be accommodated into that framework is debateable, but I reckon it could well do more harm than good.