Aragones is still digging

[Gilps]

poultry workers

 

Spain v France, quarter-final

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Aragonés will not say sorry

 

Dominic Fifield in Cologne

Tuesday June 27, 2006

The Guardian

 

Spain's coach Luis Aragonés last night refused to apologise before this evening's second-round game against France in Hanover for racially abusing Thierry Henry in 2004, insisting rather bafflingly that he has "black, Gypsy and Japanese friends, including one whose job is to determine the sex of poultry".

 

Aragonés was caught on camera calling Henry a "black s***" in October 2004 as he apparently attempted to motivate José Antonio Reyes, the Frenchman's Arsenal team-mate. He subsequently apologised publicly to Henry, though never privately, with the Spanish football federation imposing a paltry £2,000 fine - the equivalent of a day's wages - last March

 

This will be the first meeting between the 67-year-old Spaniard and the France striker since the incident but Henry has publicly insisted the matter is forgotten and he does not want to talk about it.

 

When Aragonés was asked yesterday whether he would apologise to the forward in person tonight, he said: "No, no, don't go down that road. Henry knows through Reyes, through everything [how I feel]. I won't talk about it for another second. It's a topic that isn't worth talking about. Why? Because it's not like that. I have black, Gypsy and Japanese friends, including one whose job is to determine the sex of poultry."

 

Reyes defended his coach yesterday. "Henry knows well that Aragonés is not a racist person," he said.

[Stevie H]

i'd like to see thierry henry hit a really well-aimed, full-on drive right into aragones' testicles during tonight's match. and then claim that he didn't mean it.

[D.Boon]

Henry wont need any extra motivation for tonight

[Falconhoof]

I'd be interested to know Ron Atkinson's take on Aragones ?

[Gilps]

I'd be interested to know Ron Atkinson's take on Aragones ?

 

"If only I thought to have friends who were chicken farmers, I'd still be on the telly"

[The Hitman]

Odds on Henry to score the winning goal tonight?

[Kahnee]

Odds on Henry to score the winning goal tonight?

 

It's a big game, the pressures on...

 

 

250-1?

[cymrococh]

That's a rubbish amount of minority friends, I can think of at least one bigot with way more than that.

[Stevie H]

That's a rubbish amount of minority friends, I can think of at least one bigot with way more than that.

 

idi amin?

[Des]

idi amin?

 

Murphman.

[Swagger]

It's a big game, the pressures on...

250-1?

 

Class !!

[New York Red]

It's the Spanish FA and Fifa who are to blame for allowing this moron to continue. How on earth can they do anything about racism when they have this d*ck at the top?

[Rimbeux]

I think the whole thing is a farce, a dressed up controversy that was lined up with, but ultimately took away from the serious issue of racism on Spanish terraces.

[New York Red]

I think the whole thing is a farce, a dressed up controversy that was lined up with, but ultimately took away from the serious issue of racism on Spanish terraces.

 

I haven't been to Spain in years so I don't know this for sure. But, I suspect that under all of this, Spanish society generally still thinks it is OK to say and do things which are clearly racist.

[Guest Jack Bauer]

But what about England

[Coyler]

Rafa didn't exactly denounce him outright, if I remember correctly. Wasn't his statement a bit avoidy-oidy?

[New York Red]

But what about England

 

I think it's generally better in England than in the US, that's for sure.

[Rimbeux]

I haven't been to Spain in years so I don't know this for sure. But, I suspect that under all of this, Spanish society generally still thinks it is OK to say and do things which are clearly racist.

 

I'm sure there are still issues in Spain as a whole, but this should be looked at for what it is. He wasn't announcing his views at a press conference. He was with the team, in private, talking to one of his players, trying to get something out of him. In that environment, in that context, what real judgement could you make.

 

Here I am assuming the translations are correct, as I'm sure they've been explored for biggest impact already, and I'm wondering what difference if he'd have used French, or even to transpose it, if it had been an English manager describing someone as a scouse this, cockney that, jock, paddy etc. I'm thinking not a lot, probably some equally preaching headlines, but the same remains, worth the fuss?

 

Ron Atkinson might be held up against this, but the language he used was on a whole different level

[Guest Red Mist]

Rafa's response was typical of the entire Spanish reaction to the whole affair. They think it's better to ignore such things, as opposed to the English mentality of actually doing something about it.

Aragones is a c*nt, as are the Spanish supporters, a big reason to why (unlike so many Reds) I'm offering no support to Spain. Hope France dump them out.

[Des]

Ron Atkinson might be held up against this, but the language he used was on a whole different level

 

No it wasn't. Not sure how calling someone a "black sh*t" is better than calling someone a "n****r". It's still referring to someone's skin colour in a derogatory way. There are no excuses for Aragones and he should have been sacked.

[Rimbeux]

No it wasn't. Not sure how calling someone a "black sh*t" is better than calling someone a "n****r". It's still referring to someone's skin colour in a derogatory way. There are no excuses for Aragones and he should have been sacked.

 

There's a significant difference

[Coyler]

Rafa didn't exactly denounce him outright, if I remember correctly. Wasn't his statement a bit avoidy-oidy?

Liverpool's Spanish manager Rafael Benitez believed the racists should not be given publicity.

 

"We condemn racism in all walks of society but it would be a big mistake to keep giving small groups like this publicity," the former Valencia coach said ."This is not normal in Spain."

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/SPORT/football...9/spain.racism/

 

Sorry Rafa. I think.

[Des]

There's a significant difference

 

Which is what?

[Rimbeux]

Which is what?

 

In the level of supposed offence. The word Atkinson used is in a world of it's own. It's not a simple equal as you suggest, far from it

[Des]

In the level of supposed offence. The word Atkinson used is in a world of it's own. It's not a simple equal as you suggest, far from it

 

But surely the intent of the words is more important than the actual words, and there is no doubting Aragones' intent. He made a blatantly racist comment to Reyes and has tried to brush it off as though it meant nothing - he's no better than Atkinson.