Gerrard or Henry?

[berdoing]

A while ago I put forward a notion that Thierry Henry was a very good player, but not a great player.

 

The reason for this was because I do not believe him to be a big-game player.

 

I then gave some facts, and although a couple of people agreed with me, most just laughed me off.

 

Having had the chance to witness first hand the contributions of Steven Gerrard and Thierry Henry in cup finals in the same week, would anyone argue against Gerrard being the greater man for the big occasion?

 

Michael Owen, Mark Hughes and Ian Rush are other examples of this type of player.

 

But Henry, though very good, is not.

[RP]

Thierry Henry is one of the best players in the world.

[berdoing]

Thierry Henry is one of the best players in the world.

 

That wasn't my point though, was it?

[RP]

No idea, tbh. Was there one?

[realtarragona]

If being one of the best players in the world doesn't make you a 'great' player though, what does...

 

And he does perform in big games.

 

You can hardly blame him for tonight when he was upfront on his own and having to chase everything as his team was down to ten men...

[berdoing]

If being one of the best players in the world doesn't make you a 'great' player though, what does...

 

And he does perform in big games.

 

You can hardly blame him for tonight when he was upfront on his own and having to chase everything as his team was down to ten men...

 

I am not arguing the fact whether he is a good player or not. But the truly great players leave their mark on the biggest occasions.

 

I want you to name me a semi-final or final or major tournament where he has performed. I recognise his achievement at Euro 2000, but given all the other occasions in his career - and there are a lot - he just does not do it.

 

My point is that if I had to choose one player for a final between Gerrard and Henry, it'd be Gerrard. Owen and Henry? It'd be Owen.

[Guz]

I am not arguing the fact whether he is a good player or not. But the truly great players leave their mark on the biggest occasions.

 

I want you to name me a semi-final or final or major tournament where he has performed. I recognise his achievement at Euro 2000, but given all the other occasions in his career - and there are a lot - he just does not do it.

 

My point is that if I had to choose one player for a final between Gerrard and Henry, it'd be Gerrard. Owen and Henry? It'd be Owen.

 

So your point is you'd rather pick a striker who has a 'better' record in 'big' games, over one of the best footballers on the planet?

[berdoing]

So your point is you'd rather pick a striker who has a 'better' record in 'big' games, over one of the best footballers on the planet?

 

I know which one would most probably score.

 

My point is that Henry does not do it in the big games. And that is something you are either born with, or you aren't. He isn't.

[Cam]

One's an over-rated, self-centred egomaniac intent on screwing a huge pay rise out of his club with a threat to leave.

 

The other is.... erm....

[lfc003]

wot a stupid thread

[realtarragona]

I want you to name me a semi-final or final or major tournament where he has performed. I recognise his achievement at Euro 2000, but given all the other occasions in his career - and there are a lot - he just does not do it.

 

Henry's had two proper tournaments with France, both of which they haven't performed in. So hard to judge him there.

 

With his club, he's had four finals I think. Gerrard, on the other hand, has had about eight in all competitions. So not the fairest of comparisons...

 

Look at Henry's record in the Champions League (goals against Roma, Juventus, Madrid etc) - proof he does do it in the big games.

Edited May 17, 2006 by realtarragona

[Cobs]

Thierry Henry is one of the best players in the world.

 

 

 

 

he's a flat track bully, Paul.

[Guz]

I know which one would most probably score.

 

 

 

Logic suggests you pick the guy with a better goalscoring record and one that is more likely to help his team win i.e. the better player - and that isn't Owen...

[berdoing]

Henry's had two proper tournaments with France, both of which they haven't performed in. So hard to judge him there.

 

With his club, he's had four finals I think. Gerrard, on the other hand, has had about eight in all competitions. So not the fairest of comparisons...

 

Look at Henry's record in the Champions League (goals against Roma, Juventus, Madrid etc) - proof he does do it in the big games.

 

No. They are not the big occasions though. They were second round, quarter-final games. I am talking semi-finals, finals, major international tournaments. Euro 2000 is the only time he has done anything in any of those.

 

Players are ultimately remembered for what they do on the very, very biggest stages. Look at the names of all the truly great players and they have done it in World Cups, European Cup finals and to a lesser degree European Championships - Pele, Maradona, Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Best and more recently Ronaldo and so on.

 

No-one is disputing Henry is a very good player. But the true greats do it at the highest of levels, and he hasn't done enough of that yet to convince me. But then again I am a very demanding football supporter who has seen a lot and takes a lot of persuading to be impressed - many on here are the Premiership generation and to them Henry really is one of the best players ever.

[Guest Red Mist]

Henry is a good player but he's also a whiney, arrogant b@stard and a sore loser too. And to exalt the virtues of Jose f*cking Mourinho straight after losing a CL final is completely unforgiveable.

Give me our brilliant and humble captain any day.

[berdoing]

Henry is a good player but he's also a whiney, arrogant b@stard and a sore loser too. And to exalt the virtues of Jose f*cking Mourinho straight after losing a CL final is completely unforgiveable.

Give me our brilliant and humble captain any day.

 

I'd rather this hadn't got into a us v them situation. My statements would be the same no matter who he played for. I'd love Henry to play for Liverpool. He would score loads of goals. But I would be expecting the likes of Gerrard or someone else to deliver on the biggest occasion, rather than Henry. Let us reassess this after the World Cup and see how he does there.

[Nebraska Red]

i think it's hard to compare the 2 players from the past 2 games.

 

Henry's team was screwed by the daft action by their keeper, and it was only a matter of time before Barcelona took over .

 

Henry did send in a superb cross for the Arsenal goal, something that Gerrard does not do very well.

 

After the red card, Arsenal were pretty much reduced to defence and counter attacking.

[Guest Red Mist]

i think it's hard to compare the 2 players from the past 2 games.

 

Henry's team was screwed by the daft action by their keeper, and it was only a matter of time before Barcelona took over .

 

Henry did send in a superb cross for the Arsenal goal, something that Gerrard does not do very well.

 

After the red card, Arsenal were pretty much reduced to defence and counter attacking.

Gerrard does not cross well? First I've heard of it...

[_00_deathscar]

Henry did send in a superb cross for the Arsenal goal, something that Gerrard does not do very well.

 

 

Who exactly provided Cisse's goal then?

[Nebraska Red]

Who exactly provided Cisse's goal then?

 

I meant from a dead ball situation.

[Sir Tokyo Sexwale]

Henry = flat-track-bully = imagination

 

 

 

C*ntona = flat-TrACk-bUlLY = reailty

[Lee W]

But the true greats do it at the highest of levels, and he hasn't done enough of that yet to convince me. But then again I am a very demanding football supporter who has seen a lot and takes a lot of persuading to be impressed - many on here are the Premiership generation and to them Henry really is one of the best players ever.

 

Get down off yer perch mate

 

Those that really rate Henry (two examples in this thread) are definitely not Sky generation divvys, but have probably been following the game for around about (or more probably) than the 28 years I have.

 

Sorry, to burst ya bubble but Henry is simply one of the best players there has been - technically he is as good as Maradona was, if not better, and he has won virtually everything there is to win, but the European Cup and performed at the highest level, despite this myth that he is a flat-track bully.

 

Bit of an arrogant twerp sometimes admittedly, but feck me he's got every right to be with the talent he's got.

[_00_deathscar]

 

Sorry, to burst ya bubble but Henry is simply one of the best players there has been - technically he is as good as Maradona was, if not better,

 

Bullsh*t.

 

Agree with the general theme of hte post though.

[Lee W]

Bullsh*t.

 

why ?

[Will]

World Cup 1998 - 3 goals in 6 games

Euro 2000 - 3 goals in 5 games

 

All internationals - 31 goals in 76 games