Other clubs' Fans' Forums

[Guest Red Flame]

Prompted by a thread here, I was trawling a couple of other clubs' forums for their reaction to our cup win. I landed on Newcastle's and, although the game is only briefly mentioned, the thread develops into an interesting discussion about the whys-and-wherefores of the Magpie's status and recent history in comparison to us.

 

Genuine fans taking part in a genuine debate. Heart-rending and fascinating at the same time.

 

NEWCASTLE

[Guest The Chunk]

"Hmmmm. Having witnessed 50,000 fans show such fanatical devotion to Shearer and our club on Thursday night, I wonder why a club that is certainly no bigger than us [Liverpool] can constantly achieve so much"

 

f***ing deluded Geordie t***.

 

A decent stadium and they thnik they're fukin Real Madrid.

[Phil236849]

"Hmmmm. Having witnessed 50,000 fans show such fanatical devotion to Shearer and our club on Thursday night, I wonder why a club that is certainly no bigger than us [Liverpool] can constantly achieve so much"

 

f***ing deluded Geordie t***.

 

A decent stadium and they thnik they're fukin Real Madrid.

 

 

er, i think he's admiring liverpool as a club, from top to bottom...

[Guest The Chunk]

er, i think he's admiring liverpool as a club, from top to bottom...

 

By comparing them to us in terms of stature in the game?

 

They're the biggest crying c**** in football

 

Poor, big spending, underachieving Newcastle and their legions of fat, deluded fans...

Edited May 16, 2006 by The Chunk

[budgie]

By comparing them to us in terms of stature in the game?

I think the point is that financially they should be on a similar level. Not the only contributing factor but let them live in hope. They should be doing better given the size of their club.

[Guest The Chunk]

They just don't have our soul...

[johngibo YPC]

its an interesting subject. Newcastle have a similar 'potential' to us, if a very different trophy cabinet. I think it has alot to do with the mentality around a club. Shankly can't be given enough credit for what he achieved. Instilling a winning belief around the club when there wasn't one. Having an attitude that a club exists to win trophies is very important. This has never really gone away at Liverpool. The expectation is there, so the club, managers, chairman and players must deliver. I'm guessing that if you went to the Liverpool training ground and the Newcastle training groung they would have very different feels to them. Clubs like Newcastle also seem to have alot of players who think that they have made it because of the size of their reputation and their wage packet, rather than the trophies they have won. Kieron Dyer always came across abit like this, although that might be just me.

 

I have a theory that how well a club does as much to do with expectation than players, although you obviously need both. Say Gerrard and Carra had actually come through the Everton ranks, would they be the same players now. Say in a parallel universe Everton had the exact same starting X1 we do now. Would they do as well? i personally don't think so. Its Shankly who built the expectation, and demanded the desire for trophies, and others have continued that. Without it you can't win anything in my opinion.

[Cunny]

newcastle

crap chairman

crap managers

crap players and signings

 

QED

[Guest The Chunk]

Newcastle have only had similar potential since Sky's money was pumped into the game. Before that they were always small time. While we were always a big, succesful club.

 

I bet none of the new Geordie faithful, who go on about their huge support and global appeal, remember the crowds of 14 thousand in the eighties.

[PLY]

If they want to look at why they have not been successful then look no further than this quote from that forum "I think Gordon Lee was ahead of his time and nobody appreciated him"

[Mikey]

They just don't have our soul...

OUR soul???

[Guest The Chunk]

OUR soul???

 

Are you the forum virgin...I mean stalker?

[DaveLFC]

The geordies have had their trophy for the season, his name was Owen and they paraded him in front of their adoring fans at the start of the season.

 

We'll stick to silverware.

 

West Ham are a bigger club than Newcastle, they might not have a massive stadium (another trophy for the geordies to admire) and they might not have fans with huge guts on display but West Ham will always be a bigger club than Newcastle.

 

Deluded Geordies is right, I bet they called us a one man team when we had Owen..

Edited May 16, 2006 by DaveLFC

[Swipe]

Newcastle are a big club = the most ridiculous, preposterous myth in football.

 

They'll always be small time.

 

Shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as the likes of Liverpool and Man United.

[owenthomas]

i'm with Chunk on this..

[cymrococh]

its an interesting subject. Newcastle have a similar 'potential' to us, if a very different trophy cabinet. I think it has alot to do with the mentality around a club. Shankly can't be given enough credit for what he achieved. Instilling a winning belief around the club when there wasn't one. Having an attitude that a club exists to win trophies is very important. This has never really gone away at Liverpool. The expectation is there, so the club, managers, chairman and players must deliver. I'm guessing that if you went to the Liverpool training ground and the Newcastle training groung they would have very different feels to them. Clubs like Newcastle also seem to have alot of players who think that they have made it because of the size of their reputation and their wage packet, rather than the trophies they have won. Kieron Dyer always came across abit like this, although that might be just me.

 

I have a theory that how well a club does as much to do with expectation than players, although you obviously need both. Say Gerrard and Carra had actually come through the Everton ranks, would they be the same players now. Say in a parallel universe Everton had the exact same starting X1 we do now. Would they do as well? i personally don't think so. Its Shankly who built the expectation, and demanded the desire for trophies, and others have continued that. Without it you can't win anything in my opinion.

great post, agree with every word.

[Guest The Chunk]

i'm with Chunk on this..

 

You know it makes sense.

[Phil236849]

any club who can pack in 55k or so fans will make a lot of revenue and should be able to buy a lot of talent. one day, they may get those purchases right. the difficulty they have is in persuading people to go to a north east outhole with no established real history to speak of. very few of their purchases have been good enough - shearer, possibly bellamy. most of them are dross. until they manage to attract the right players (not necessarily the best as rafa always says), they will continue to frustrate their fans, who are right to have reasonably high expectations, because they do have the basic components to be a big club

 

put another way, whilst they have potential to go out and spend £20m a summer, I will always be wary that it is possible that one day they could be seeking to compete with the big 4 in the league. some of the other managers often mention n'castle at the start of the season as a possible challenger. personally, i think roeder's run has flattered to deceive, and that they are still a long way off. the other thing that holds them back is freddy shepherd. and this idea that shearer is their saviour manager in waiting!

Edited May 16, 2006 by Phil236849

[HeWonItFromBrock]

 

 

I have a theory that how well a club does as much to do with expectation than players, although you obviously need both. Say Gerrard and Carra had actually come through the Everton ranks, would they be the same players now. Say in a parallel universe Everton had the exact same starting X1 we do now. Would they do as well? i personally don't think so. Its Shankly who built the expectation, and demanded the desire for trophies, and others have continued that. Without it you can't win anything in my opinion.

 

Couldn't agree more with that. Had we not won our previous 4 European Cups I'm convinced that we wouldn't have won last year against Milan. I think it's psychological that because you are playing for Liverpool the standards are higher.

 

History can also work against you though and the burden of not winning for so long (a la Newcastle) makes it harder to win that first one.

Edited May 16, 2006 by HeWonItFromBrock

[David Hodgson]

Newcastle have more in common with Sunderland and Man City than they do with us. They've got potential because they have big grounds and largish local fan bases.

 

In theory one could say, simplistically, that because they can attract similiar crowds to us there is a parity in potential. That may have been the case in the 1950's, but 4 decades of our success and their failure have changed that landscape.

 

Our success is not just our heritage, it defines our future, and we don't need to get misty-eyed to see in what areas that happens. Firstly it has armed us with a far bigger worldwide fanbase, more TV appeal, and therefore many more sources of revenue. It is no accident that despite Newcastle having the bigger ground that we always eclipse them in turnover terms.

 

Our success has also bought greater appeal to signings, G14 membership, appeal to better managers, and also, quite simply, created a platform from which to build each year. Look at what Rafa Benitez inherited after what was seen as a fallow period for LFC : his task was to take a top 4 club to being a top 1or2 club. Likewise Houllier took over a similar relative position from Evans. Newcastle's new managers are usually faced with first getting the club out of the wrong half of the table, and it's therefore an achievement to haul the club into the top 8.

 

Newcastle need to catch up to us on a regular basis, in terms of league position, for one, before they can even start comparing their potential to ours.

[owenthomas]

great post, agree with every word.

what he said

[johngibo YPC]

bloody hell must type up some more of my theories.

ok the world is actually run by reptiles from another planet......

[owenthomas]

seeing as George Bush is probably the most powerful man in the World, after Spidey, you may not be far wrong..

[Euphrates]

seeing as George Bush is probably the most powerful man in the World, after Spidey, you may not be far wrong..

Is that what spiderneil is up to now?

[lfc4eva99]

some of the comments on that forum were absolutely hilarious!, what a way to start the morning....lol