MFletcher

Gremio's official website gave the price as, when converted, £6.2M. So not £10M.

It's going to have to be: Xabi Alonso, Lucas Leiva, Gerrard and Mascherano I can see Momo moving on this summer... Actually, he should stay so he doesn't wreck the song.

I'm more considering the fact that players like Essien are going for £24.4M. Hell, even a player has limited has Carrick moved for £18M last year. Looking at how important Xabi has been in recent times, if not so much this season, we should be demanding top dollar. It's not about what's he's really worth, but we have a history of selling players on the cheap and, if we are selling Xabi, it has to be for a fee we'd really struggle to turn down. All in, I consider him worth £25M based on how much we'll lose from our midfield if he's sold.

These journalists must be joking if they think we'd release Alonso for ?18M. I'd demand at least £25M for him. Selling him for ?18M would be scandalous.

But what if he doesn't prove his fitness? We'll continue paying his salary and we'll lose any potential income from a transfer fee.

Because Gerrard's place in the team is guaranteed. If we sign Malouda and Simao (which is a possiblity), Kewell might not even make the 16 some weeks. Thus making his 60K salary look ridiculous for a bit-part player. Plus we wouldn't be able to sell him again and would lose him on a free next summer.

A fella on another forum has said that there's an article in the L'pool Daily Post about Riise moving on this summer. Anyone have any confirmation of this?

It makes me wish he'd be quiet sometimes, but if it helps him play well then I don't really care. It was when he was playing rubbish and he claimed he should be in the England squad that it annoyed me. If he's playing well, I don't really care.

To be fair, we don't have to sell these players - for a change. We've always been trying to sell crap, but now we're in a position where we have good Premiership/La Liga players who we're looking to move on - and more than one club will be interested. It makes a change from trying to give away the likes of Vignal, Diomede, Arphexad and so on.

I think our budget will be bigger than most people think. There are several factors to consider: 1. Our run to the CL final will have generated significant funds 2. The new TV deal will see increased incomes for the club 3. Gillett and Hicks will be keen to appease any fans still concerned about their takeover 4. We have squad players who will generate funds 5. We aren't giving these players away In the past, we seemed like a soft touch when it came to selling. We would always sell players for a lot less than we bought them for, but that seems to have changed with a lot of our buys commanding fees much higher than the ones we paid for them. I reckon we'll have a much bigger transfer budget than we're used to this summer - although that will be lower in following years as Gillett and Hicks pay themselves large dividends to cover the interest payments on their loans. With this money, we'll also have to consider player sales. We could see ten or more players moving on and they'll all command good fees. Player Name...................Minimum.............Maximum ------------------------------------------------------------- C. Bellamy........................£8M....................£12M M. Sissoko........................£10M...................£14M S. Carson.........................£3M.....................£5M D. Cisse...........................£5.5M...................£8M S. Hyypia..........................£0.5M..................£1M J. Riise..............................£5M.....................£8M A. Le Tallec........................£1M....................£2M M. Gonzalez..............................£5M agreed F. Pongolle................................£2.7M agreed B. Zenden....................................Released R. Fowler......................................Released J. Dudek.......................................Released ================================= Minimum Income: £40.7M Maximum Income: £57.7M ================================= Of course, the majority of that is speculative. I consider Bellamy, Cisse, Le Tallec, Gonzalez, Pongolle, Zenden, Fowler and Dudek absolute certainties to leave (with the latter five obviousl definite). After Sissoko's comments yesterday that he isn't happy with rotation, he'll probably leave. Lucas is the real deal and Rafa won't take kindly to having his methods questioned. Juventus and Barcelona are constantly being linked with him, so I could see him leaving between the fees I've specified. Carson wil be after first team football, as will Hyypia. Riise is just generally useless and it's more of a hope rather than an expectation that he'll be sold. For the first time in a long time, we have good players who will collect good fees. I think it's a testament to the work Rafa has done that this is the case. He was expected to completely rebuild a squad after the farce that was Houllier's last year in charge. He focused on quantity and brought in good players for reasonable fees. Now we're in a position where we can replace these squad players with quality and there will be takers. In past years we've literally handed registrations to other clubs in a desperate bid to get them off the wage bill. With these players leaving, it would leave gaps in the squad. Of course, we're all expecting us to sign a striker and a winger (absolute minimum), but with the story that Crouch is staying that means only one striker. So the idea of having Tevez and Eto'o in the same team ( ) goes out the window as we'll have three striking positions filled (Kuyt, Crouch, Voronin). As far as I'm concerned, we need two strikers, two wingers, a centre back and a left back. However, I think we'll move for one striker, two wingers and a centre back. Player Name...................Minimum.............Maximum ------------------------------------------------------------- S. Sabrosa.......................£13.5M.................£13.5M G. Milito............................£10M....................£12M C. Tevez...........................£21M....................£25M D. Alves............................£18M....................£23M ================================= Minimum Spend: £62.5M Maximum Spend: £73.5M ================================= I consider these four the most likely of our targets. I think the two players that Rafa is on about (the two ?20M players he could sign immediately) are Simao and Milito. Alves and Tevez will command much higher fees, but Simao has a release clause of ?20M and it is no secret that Rafa has been chasing him for a couple of years now. With a new centre back, we could well see Agger moved to left back (only occasionally) to exploit his obvious comfort on the ball. Aurelio was showing glimpses of his real form and Insua looks extremely promising. With Kewell unlikely to be sold (Rafa has always played him in important games) and Simao (likely) to come in, it leaves Riise with no real place in the squad and it is one of the reasons I think we might sell him. Chuck the fact he's completely useless into the bargain and it seems like a no-brainer. Again, Alves is a player that Rafa has been chasing for a year now and although he'll command a higher fee that he did last year, the tactical benefits are obvious. If Gerrard is playing right midfield, then we'll have guaranteed width on the right. Although Finnan does his best and can put in a great cross, he rarely bursts down the wing and prefers to stay just past the half-way line. Alves at right back would allow Gerrard to cut in, safe in the knowledge that we will still have width. However, if we're facing a poorer team, we could see Alves moved to right midfield, Finnan in at right back, Gerrard in the middle and attack them even more. He provides "options" and Rafa likes that. Tevez is a no brainer. We're being linked with him constantly. Throw in the fact we have Mascherano already here and he's said that Tevez is talking about a "probable" move to Liverpool and we seem like the most likely destination. He works hard, he has flair and he knows where the back of the net is. Net Movements ..................................Minimum Income...........Maximum Income Minimum Spend..................£21.8M..........................£4.8M Maximum Spend.................£32.8M..........................£15.8 Possible Team ..................................................Reina ..Alves/Finnan.........Carragher/Arbeloa...........Agger/Milito.........Aurelio/Insua ..Pennant/Gerrard....Mascherano/Alonso/Lucas/Gerrarrd.....Kewell/Simao ...................................Kuyt/Tevez/Crouch/Voronin No doubt we'll sign more than four players and we probably won't sell as many as I've suggested (and my fees are probably being optimistic), but we're in a position where it's make or break. We have to spend big and bring in the quality this summer or we could be also-rans for years to come. We have real talent in Reina, Carragher, Agger, Mascherano, Alonso and Gerrard. That's the spine of the team and we need to make quality additions to ensure we make the step up. If we continue to dilly-dally and buy our third choice players, we could be looking at another season where the top four is as realistic as it gets. (I really do have too much time on my hands these days. )

Voronin does seem a "pre-takeover" move, but we can't dismiss him as rubbish until we've seen him play a few games for us. He could prove to be a fantastic signing or he could prove to be completely and utterly useless. However, if Crouch is staying then that means that only one striker will be coming in this summer.

Apart from the very odd game here and there, Bellamy has been useless. Crouch is a good, solid player but I think we can do better and I'd willingly accept a return of 10 league goals from a new signing if it meant they'd hammer them in for years to come. Remember, Crouch only scored nine goals in the league this year , although admittedly he was rotated a lot.

If we can sell Crouch and Cisse then we've put a lot of money towards a top striker. We'll get minimum 15M for the pair, so that cuts down the net outlay for the striker to replace Crouch. I'd be very happy with Torres coming in. I think he's an excellent player. He was labelled as the golden boy who would take Atletico Madrid back to the top of La Liga and was made captain at 19. If the extra responsibility is lifted from him and he's partnered with someone like Kuyt/Tevez and is receiving service from the likes of Gerrard and Alonso then we could really see the best of him. He's fast, good in the air, good on the ground and has one heck of a shot of him. I'd be very happy to sign him - although his release clause is maybe too high for us to meet it outright. We should definitely look at negotiating it down.

Just one question before I continue - what did Rafa supposedly say about Kuyt? A poster on the last page made a comment along those lines. Anyway, my take on the situation is that Rafa has finally had enough of the laid-back style of Parry. I've read stories that Parry was in the cinema with his phone switched off when Michael Owen was desperate to get hold of him before moving to Newcastle. I've also read that Simao was desperate to come here but the deal wasn't completed in time. I understand Rafa's complaints wholeheartedly if this is the case. We must be quick in the transfer market if we want to move forward. A lot of our business seems to be conducted in the later stages of the window. Kuyt came in late August last year, meaning he had no pre-season under him. In January, Arbeloa came on pretty much the last day. If we're serious about challenging for the Premiership, we must bid early and meet the demands of the club before our haggling causes them to put the price up. I daresay we would have had Alves tearing down the right wing on Wednesday night if we had moved as quickly as possible at the conclusion of last season. I've even read that we should have Vidic in central defence, but the deal fell through and we were forced to turn to Agger - who's hardly been a bad buy. But if we dilly-dally this summer and are forced to buy Morten Gamst Pedersen from Blackburn because we take too long to finalise a deal for Simao, then we're completely screwed. The problems lie with Parry and his out-dated beliefs. He seems to think that players should be completely 100% committed to joining/staying at the club and, as a consequence, there is little need to hurry. Unfortunately, players will start to wonder if they're actually wanted and will look elsewhere - Steven Gerrard's contract situation for a start. By moving as quickly as possible, we're able to bid before other clubs, show our commitment to obtaining the player and we can get them in before pre-season begins. It's imperative that these things happen, because if we continue to muck about we'll end up with third choice players arriving for 6M fees in the middle of August. It's not good enough for a club with our potential and size. After the heartbreak of Wednesday night, Rafa knew that the fans could see our problems and, while his stock was high, he decided now was the time to make public his distress at the whole situation. He was quite clearly emotional and it was abundantly clear how strongly he felt that we had to move faster or risk being also-rans for the forseeable future. I'd much rather get rid of Parry than Rafa. If Rafa moves on, we'll be back to square one again. Parry can easily be replaced.

Some Hungarian fella on the BBC forums said we'd signed him. I usually don't take much notice, but it's still the first place I read about us signing Jordy Browuer.

The reason we're stuck with squad players is because Rafa has been forced to buy quantity rather than quality. If you consider the squad when he took over, it was littered with crap. Traore, Smicer, Biscan, Baros, Dudek and Mellor are just some of the names that spring to mind. No doubt some of you will leap to their defence and I will never forget the contributions of all of them to our 2005 European Cup winning season. That said, there isn't a hope that we could possibly have pushed on with a squad containing such players. As a consequence, Rafa has been forced to try and build a title winning team from scratch. He's been limited by budget as well. Where Man United can go out and buy Carrick for 18M and Hargreaves for 17M to bulk up their midfield options, Rafa has had to spread that amount over a number of targets. As a result, he's had to buy average to above-average players and work overtime to try and find players who could make the step up to world class. If anyone can look me in the eye and tell me that, if we had the finances then that we do now, we'd have even had a second look at Bellamy or Crouch then you would be lying. Consider that we could lavish 13.5M on Simao this summer. Last season, Rafa looked at what he needed and decided that was a pacey striker and a right winger. He had 13-14M quid to do it. What could he do? Lavish it all on Alves and then try and bring in another Fowler-type player? A stop-gap free signing who would run out of steam half wa through the season? No. He bought two perfectly good Premiership players in Bellamy and Pennant. Good enough for the Premiership? Certainly. Good enough for Liverpool? Not a chance. And therein lies our problems over the past three years. We've been forced to look at our third, fourth, fifth targets because the top ones are top pricey. Bolo Zenden was a decent signing considering the circumstances. We needed cover in a number of positions and he had experience at top clubs like Barca and Chelsea, as well as a couple of solid seasons in the Premiership with Middlesbrough. As a free signing, he was a good squad player. We were forced to buy players like him (and I daresay Voronin considering he was pre-takeover) because we weren't in a position to spend 4 or 5M quid on a squad player. If we were spending 5M+ quid, we were buying a first team player - Agger, Sissoko, Bellamy etc. Furthermore, our finances were so restricted last year that David Moores, such was his love for the club, actually loaned us 9M quid to afford Dirk Kuyt. How Rafa has managed to take us to two European finals, winning one, consecutive third place finishes, a Carling Cup final and an FA Cup win in three seasons is beyond me. The man is a genius and he is right when he says we must spend big to make the step up. Players such as Zenden, Pennant, Bellamy and Crouch cannot be faulted for their work rate or determination to do well for the team. Ultimately it is their quality that lets them down. Until now we weren't in a position to buy such quality players. No-one can point to Rafa's record and say that a player he bought has been a complete flop. Players such as Josemi, Nunez, Kromkamp etc. were cheap signings for squad cover. When they didn't perform, they were moved on. The only player we can point out is Morientes at 6.3M. However, I think you'd struggle to find a single Liverpool fan who thought signing Morientes was a bad thing whenever he first came in. He had a tremendous record in previous seasons and was one of the key reasons behind Monaco's unexpected run to the CL final. I was absolutely delighted when we signed him, but he was ultimately unable to adapt to the Premiership and quietly left to return to Spain. This is another example of Rafa's intelligent dealings in the market - if players don't impress, they move on before thier value plummets. This was one of the main criticisms I had of Houllier, who seemed far too stubborn and unwilling to move on players he'd bought who were clearly not good enough. When Rafa has lavished money on big signings (all two of them), they have been good buys. Both Xabi Alonso and Dirk Kuyt are excellent team players. Alonso is vital to our team and it would be a travesty if he doesn't sign a new contract. Dirk is a fantastic worker and will score more goals next season. He had a decent return this season, but the talent is clearly there. Both are well on their way to becoming foreign legends at the club and that can only be a ringing endorsement of Rafa's dealings. If he spends big, he spends well. We were forced to play players like Zenden in the CL final because there was no-one else. Aurelio, Garcia and Kewell weren't fit and Bolo was the only option left. I think Rafa is perfectly entitled to "throw the toys out of the pram". He knows what had to be done and has listened to Tom and George continually say that they will back him. He obviously has a clear list of targets in mind and wants to get them in as quickly as possible. It's clear that we dithered for too long and ended up with Pennant instead of Alves. Another summer of hesitation (and general incompetence and lack of urgency from Parry) could see us lining up with Pedersen and Darren Bent in the team as we managed to miss out on Simao and Eto'o. It's not an idea I want to entertain.

Those five plus a left back would put us in an absolutely fantastic position. I "could" see them all coming as well. I certainly hope so anyway.

I've always thought of Parry as being too incompetent and laid back for the job. Our failure to move quickly for targets as seen us give up on them and then move down our list. He, allegedly, had his phone switched off while he sat in the cinema the day before the transfer window closed in 2005 as Owen tried to get hold of him. Now, I'm not saying that Owen should have come straight back, but which CEO worth his money has his phone switched off the day before the transfer window closes? Furthermore, he took himself off on holiday and left Steven Gerrard to wonder if a new contract was actually going to come his way or not. His actions during the ticketing shambles for the CL final didn't help. I don't think most fans would have complained if he had been open and transparent about the numbers, but the "I'm not going to get drawn into a numbers game" comment really made people suspicious of what the hell was going on. I'm not remotely surprised that he could be on the verge of the sack. I've read that the Lucas deal was tied up within 72 hours. We met Gremio's demands, we met the player's demands and he was ours. Right now, we'd all be cursing that he'd went to Fiorentina because we didn't act quickly enough if the deal had been left to Parry. In short, he's incompetent and a fool and the sooner he goes the better.

Again, if Rafa is going to sell Kewell he'll have to do it this summer. His contract runs out next summer and if the guy gets injured again we'll be left paying him 65K a week to sit about all day. Rafa does rate Kewell though, so I can see him being given this season to prove himself. Losing him on a free would be poor though, because he is a very good player when fit.

I consider Riise to be surplus to requirements. He's not good enough defensively for LB and not skillful enough for left midfield. He's limited, completely one footed and has no concept of passing the ball to a team-mate. A lot of the time he just puts it on to his left foot and hoofs it up the pitch. Anyway, I'd consider two strikers, two wingers a centre back and a left back our priorities this summer. Of course, we should be looking at significant player sales to fund the deals, but the following are what I "could" see happening. Some of you probably won't agree, but I'd be interested to hear what you think. OUT ----- Peter Crouch 11M Craig Bellamy 10M Djibril Cisse 6M Sinama Pongolle 2.7M Mark Gonzalez 5M John Riise 6M Momo Sissoko 12M Bolo Zenden Free Robbie Fowler Free Jerzy Dudek Free -------- Total 52.7M -------- OK, now to explain why I think certain players will go: Crouch - I just have this gut feeling that, if we get an offer of around 11M, then Pete will move on in the summer. I think he's fairly limited in the way he plays and whilst we brings "an option", we're at the stage where we're controlling possession and dictating the tempo against top sides. If you consider the CL semi final against Chelsea, we had 70%+ of the possession in the first half an hour. Similarly in the final we were completing dictating the tempo and controlling play until we gave away a fluke goal. I feel Crouch causes us to look long too often and his erratic finishing can cost us. I could be wrong, but it's a move I could see taking place. Bellamy - Well, he's as good as gone. With "new money" clubs like Villa and West Ham after him, his price should reach eight figures. It wouldn't surprise ime if we got more than him though, because both clubs will be eager to show their "muscle" in the market. I'm just glad to be shot of him really, because I think he's been a perfectly average player all season. Djibril Cisse - 6M is an optimistic estimate, but Marseille have qualified for the CL group stages next season and he had a very good run of form for them. I doubt they'll pay the 8M we're after, but I could certainly see us agreeing on a 6M fee. Unless he's offered to Benfica as part of the Simao deal of course. Sinama Pongolle - Already sold. Mark Gonzalez - Already sold. John Riise - Now, I'm not a big fan of Riise as you can probably tell. But he's extremely limited and he's one of the players I could see Rafa selling for the right price. The occasional long range goal doesn't his wealth of defeciences. Momo Sissoko - Well, with Mascherano, Alonso, Gerrard and Leiva for next season, do other people not consider Momo the most expendable of the five? He was great last season, but Mascherano has come and made him look completely ordinary. He needs the protection of a recognised holding midfielder and his ball play can range from adequate to atrocious. He's great for tough away games in Europe, but how often do we have them? Three times a season? And how often do we have tricky games in the Premiership? Maybe four or five times a season when we visit Chelsea, Arsenal, United, Everton and Bolton? Mascherano/Alonso, Alonso/Gerrard or Gerrard/Mascherano are much better pairings in games where we're going to control possession - and we're in the situation now where that's the vast, vast majority of the games we'll play in. Consider this all-action style can leave him injured (two serious injuries in two seasons) and selling him whilst his stock is high makes sense. Rafa will make serious money (and a very good profit) and he can put that to areas of the team that need strengthening. Also, Lucas is hardly an "up and coming" player. He's the U20 captain of Brazil, is the best player in a team that's reached the semi finals of the Copa Libertadores and has had two full seasons in Brazil behind him. He's cost 6M quid as well, so it's not like we're buying some reserve from Malaga who could make the step up. Lucas is the real deal and I consider Momo a fairly expendable player because of it. Zenden, Fowler and Dudek are all gone. I made an effort to speculate on players in, but I ended up with a list that included Alves, Tevez, Simao, Eto'o and Gabi Milito. There's zero point in me guessing who's coming in, because I clearly don't have a clue. Now, some of you may completely disagree with the players I think will go in the summer. However, I think I've justified why I feel that way. Of course, there's every chance that Riise, Crouchy and Momo will stay - but their positions in the squad can hardly be considered concrete. Anyway, feel free to pick apart the list and ridicule me for suggesting that we'd ever sell some of them .

"Trial by YouTube" really is the new phenomenon on internet football forums.

I felt his comment about getting into the England team during the season was rather premature and completely wrong. I'm sure he'll learn though.

Pennant is granted stay of execution as BenÍtez wields axe James Ducker It is a sign of the progress that Jermaine Pennant has made at Liverpool in recent months that when Rafael BenÍtez was spelling out his vision for the future of the club after their Champions League final defeat by AC Milan, the winger was resting easier than some around him. Had the manager?s call for change come midway through the season, Pennant might have had serious cause to worry about his future at Anfield, but as others were hastened towards the exit yesterday, it appears that the improvement in the 24-year-old?s form has won him a reprieve. Pennant is some way off being an integral member of BenÍtez?s team and the player acknowledged as he left the Olympic Stadium in Athens on Wednesday night that he will have to reproduce the form he showed in the first half against Milan on a consistent basis to achieve that status, but having looked out of his depth during the first months of the season, recent signs have been more encouraging. Surprisingly, Pennant made more appearances ? 52 ? than any other Liverpool player this term, although the fact that he started in only 33 of those matches and managed only one goal ? albeit a cracker against Chelsea ? emphasises that there is plenty of room for improvement. It is also why you would not hear Marek Jankulovski, the Milan left back, trumpeting the talents of Pennant above Cristiano Ronaldo, even though the Liverpool winger gave him a far tougher time in the final than the Portuguese did for Manchester United in the semi-final, second leg at the San Siro. With the exception of Dirk Kuyt, Pennant has been the best of the signings BenÍtez made last summer, but while that might not mean much, with Mark González and Craig Bellamy on their way out ? with Aston Villa preparing an £8 million bid for the latter, in the face of competition from West Ham United and Blackburn Rovers ? and Gabriel Paletta and Fabio Aurélio having made next to no impact, there are grounds for optimism. The most obvious thing lacking is a goal threat ? Morten Gamst Pedersen, a possible target for BenÍtez this summer, scored eight times for Blackburn from the flanks, while Ronaldo claimed 23 goals for United ? but Pennant?s crossing is improving, he does not dribble down as many blind alleys as he used to and his newfound maturity has made a refreshing change to the controversies of the past. An England call-up cannot be ruled out and would provide another boost to Pennant?s confidence, even if his focus is on Liverpool. ?I admit I was getting a bit of bad press at first and the fans got on my back a bit and it was hard to deal with, but as soon as you get some games under your belt and you start playing well you gain in confidence,? he said. ?I had to adapt to a new manager, new players, the expectations of the fans, but in the second half of the season I think I?ve come into my own. I think I?ve shown what I am capable of and starting in the Champions League final must show that, in the boss?s eyes, I?m doing something right. I feel I have matured so much since I came to Liverpool. I needed to do that and now I am.? BenÍtez, nonetheless, is on the search for a new winger. But while one of the priorities is to offload Bellamy, even if the club have to lower their £12 million valuation of the Wales striker, the manager is keen to move quickly. David Silva, of Valencia, is under consideration and reports in France hint at interest in Florent Malouda, of Lyons. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/foo...icle1842834.ece --- In my anger at losing to an inferior Milan side on Wednesday night, I criticised the performance of Pennant and dismissed his delivery as dreadful. In the cold light of day (and a couple of nights sleep to get over the heartbreaking feeling of losing in the final), its clear that Pennant has had a promising second half to the season and did reasonably well on Wednesday night. He was a threat and showed intent, but his delivery would need to improve. I am pleased for him though, because he does run his socks off for the team. I'm hoping that, with a bit of work on his delivery, he can progress. I'm wondering how others feel about this? Disregard my comments in the Pennant thread, I was hardly in a fit state of mind at the time.

I can't fault Zenden's commitment or desire, but the guy doesn't have the right qualities and should move on. It's the same with Riise I'm afraid.

I don't consider Riise good enough defensively for left back. I don't consider him to have enough skill or crossing ability for left midfield. He's extremely limited and the occasional long range blockbuster masks his deficiencies. I'd be quietly satisfied if he was moved on this summer. (This is especially true if he was smiling while collecting his medal. I couldn't even watch the presentation.)