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Agreed. But at the same time, 10 points out of 12 is title-winning form. This is a very good start - more so considering how s*** we normally are at the start of the season.

I was five or six years old. My dad bought a sticker album for me and my slightly younger brother to share, telling us that we had to turn to a page and support that team. I got Liverpool, he got Notts County.

That is f***ing class.

I'm not a betting man. Is it a realistic ambition for us to win the league? Yes. Should our expectations match our ambitions? Not always, but this year I just don't see why we should expect anything less. We are good enough to win it - so that is my expectation. Something wrong, I think, if you're good enough to win something but don't. As said, I'm not going to throw a hissy fit and call for Rafa's head if we don't: the most important lesson in recent British football history is the way the Man U hierarchy stuck with Ferguson despite the clamour to sack him. But I fully expect to see no. 19 in our trophy room by May. And while I have no insight into the mind of top sportsmen or those who manage them, I imagine they hold themselves to some pretty exacting standards.

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Yeah, I do. We've got the players and the manager for it, and I can't see any valid excuses (for the first time in a long time). That doesn't mean that I think we will necessarily win the league, and it certainly doesn't mean that Rafa should be shunted off if we don't do it. But if the current squad can't "realistically" be "expected" to win the league, then there's something wrong? Who's the next £20m+ player we must have to "complete the jigsaw"? What manager could we get that is better than Rafa (answer: none)? I honestly think that Rafa and the lads will start the season with that exact expectation in mind. Same for Chelsea and Man U. There can only be one winner, of course, but when we kick off against Villa that is the expectation.

Result.

I realistically expect us to win the league, and if the manager and players think anything else then we should be worried - because they'll have accepted second or third best without a ball being kicked. If Rafa doesn't do it, then the answer to the question of what will keep him in the job is that we must see a serious league challenge. It's his team now, and he has financial backing enough to ensure that.

Not got time to read through all the posts here, but to address Leo's original point: the "points gap" is b******s - purpose-built to exaggerate the differences in quality between teams. Expect to hear alot more of it once the season starts - Sky will absolutely lap it up - but we are not 21 points worse than Man U. Far more pleasing to talk about the "goals gap". A single goal against Man U in the game they cheated and fluked through, for example, might've reduced the "points gap" to 15. Can't be arsed to work out just how many goals we would've needed to make the "points gap" look more respectable, but I know for a fact that it's much less hairy than the "points gap" makes out. Worth pointing out in this context that the "goals gap" stuffed us in the CL final too.

True, but that was Craig Bellamy. Bellamy has a temperament that will always make him a risk, would certainly struggle to force his way into the England team, isn't highly rated in Europe, and is on a downward spiral that will only get worse as he gets slower with age. Fundamentally, Crouch causes other teams problems and not his own. With the market for English strikers being somewhat mental, I can't see Rafa selling him at significantly less than that.

£20m for Crouch? Just goes to show that no matter what the doom-mongers who have always put him down say, the lad offers something that is highly prized by actual (rather than armchair) football managers.

About five minutes by the look of it.

"Kewell chose us ahead of practically every other top club in Europe, many of which were offering more money." From what I remember, when he signed he indicated it was because of something Houllier had promised him. What was that? I like Kewell, but even when he hasn't been injured he has been touched by poor form and, yes, sometimes a lack of effort. Note I say 'touched by', because he has been good - sometimes for many games in a row. I think the frustration with him comes from the fact that he has *never* come close to achieving the potential that was clear to see when he was at Leeds. Leeds FFS! Whether that is due to injuries (I think so), lack of application, or just because he played out of his skin for Leeds (like many others from that team: Smith, Bowyer, even Bakke) and has been over-rated since then I don't know. But it's true. He's the wrong side of his peak years now, arguably, and I will be genuinely surprise if he lasts more than another season with us. Indeed, it's not so very hard to imagine Rafa wanting rid this transfer window. Would he be wrong? Nope. It is unfair and idiotic to criticise a player for being injured, but there's more to it with Harry than that.

Well, I was very pissed by the time he came on and not exactly in a positive frame of mind, so my judgement may have been clouded. But he looked distinctly average to me. A few hints of being a threat, but I don't remember him doing anything that made me think he was going to provide an answer. 'Major' threat is over-egging it. We didn't have a 'major' threat the whole game. Would've been a different game (and possibly outcome) had we done. And this really could be my mind playing tricks on me, but I thought he lost possession in the run-up to the second goal? Indeed, wasn't he concerned more with trying to get the ref to blow for a foul than trying to win the ball back? If not, why do I have that image in my head? Someone please explain, because I really don't want to have to watch the replay.

No worse than Kewell IMO. I've tried to erase it all from my memory, but didn't the move that led to Inzaghi's second start with Kewell dicking about?

I've never seen him play, but if he can put a quality cross in from the left then I think that's a big advantage in the Premiership. Most Prem RBs just aren't f***ing used to that. Would create merry havoc I reckon. A hard-working, pacy, physical, natural left-winger would be an excellent addition. We don't need creative brilliance on both flanks and up front. One or two 'flair' players (like Tevez, or Garcia, or Alves ) would be fine. You don't have to score goals to be a genuine goal threat. If he tees them up for Kuyt/Crouch/Tevez/Owen then who cares, as long as they hit the net?

"I'll stand by saying our squad guys are at least as good..." - I can see where you're coming from, but then I also don't want to dismiss what Rafa has said as "insomnia induced briefings". He was explicit that we don't have the quantity/quality we need: "It is obvious we do not have enough players for nine months competing in four competitions." That's pretty unequivocal, "insomnia" or not. I also think that we'll be approaching an Abramovich-esque summer if it turns out that Rafa does actually want *and gets* three top players *and* better squad quality. I broadly agree with RedNik's assessment ("2-3 major additions, on top of Lucas, Leto and Voronin") as being the *likeliest* outcome, but one thing above all puzzles me. With Zenden/Gonzalez off, Kewell/Aurelio unreliable, and Leto unknown, Rafa must be eyeing up a left winger? Simao fits the bill. Combine with the continued interest in Alves and the obvious desire for a striker and it suggests to me that Rafa very much does want 3 major additions. Not counting the interest in Milito... I really can't see us paying silly money in the same way that Abramovich does (e.g. £20m+ for Carvalho, £30m+ for Shevchenko) but I stand by us doing one of the following this close season: - shelling out bigtime (£60m +) - selling players we might rather keep (e.g. Alonso, Sissoko, Crouch) - pissing Rafa off. Listening to what Rafa is saying, looking at the gaps in the squad, and assessing the market value of the players we're reputed to be interested in I simply cannot see any way round this. But then maybe Rafa is asking for everything in the hope that he gets most of what he wants...but not all.

Main reason I would like to see him at Anfield is because Rafa obviously wants to see him at Anfield.

"Rafa holds some of the responsibility" - undoubtedly. Our away form in the league, for example, cannot be laid at Parry's door. But do Rafa's recent criticisms amount to him "shifting blame everywhere"? Dunno. I imagine there's no harsher critic of his failings than the man himself. I think his recent outburst was both coloured by the emotion of losing the final and cooly aimed at getting results in transfer dealings. I don't think it's his final analysis on what has gone wrong this year. If it is then we should worry, as that 'blame everyone else' bunker mentality did for Houllier. But it isn't, so we shouldn't.

Just to defend Parry on this point, he was responsible for bringing Rafa here of course. He also played his part in Houllier's arrival - and departure. While it seems that there are problems behind the scenes, I don't like to see him being kicked around like this. Parry has been instrumental in bringing us out of a dark period in our history, maybe more than any other single person. Whatever his faults, he has been (and is still) a loyal servant of this club, up to and including bringing in rich new owners who seem right for us. It's not good to see people laying into him. If he needs to be replaced, so be it. But respect is due, surely? Let's not let Rafa's frustrations be the final say on his time here, if it comes to that.

I know that selling clubs always put out that they want more than they actually expect to get (like us with Bellamy) but I think each of these estimates is on the optimistic side. Inter offered £30m+ for Tevez last year (allegedly). West Ham value him at £25-30m (allegedly). Simao would've cost us more than that last year (allegedly). Sevilla have put a £25m price tag on Alves (allegedly). Lucas, Leto and Milito (if we get him) will cost us nearer to £15-20m I suspect. A figure of up to £8m for Lucas alone has been mentioned. On top of all this, as people have pointed out, clubs will now be looking at us with fresh eyes. Just as Chelsea, Man U, and Real Madrid pay over-the-odds because of their conspicuous wealth, so may we. Not as much as them, hopefully, but still pushing prices up rather than down. Furthermore, of course, the fact that we're competing with the richest clubs adds a premium too. All in all, our new-found wealth will probably mean selling for less and buying for more. Market forces. Except that Rafa has explicitly stated that he wants more players: "It is obvious we do not have enough players for nine months competing in four competitions." Maybe that isn't quite what he meant to say due to his dodgy English, but if it is then it sounds like he wants players *on top* of replacements for the ones we're possibly shedding: Dudek Carson Hyypia Gonzalez Zenden Bellamy Fowler If he's looking for replacements for the likes of Cisse and Pongolle too, that's up to nine replacements alone. And he says he wants more? Whatever, it's gonna be a busy, expensive summer. Our squad will look very different come August.

Where did I mention that their prices would go up? What I was getting at is that G&H may well, you know, *remember* spending up to £10m on Lucas and Leto i.e. Rafa has already spent some of that alleged £40m!. Our recent history, and Rafa's struggles with the Academy, suggest that this is quite an assumption. Again, where have I said that G&H won't support Rafa? My argument is simply that they will need to spend more than £40m to do so, or Rafa will have to sell more than he's expecting. I was agreeing with the points made by the journalist in the article (about just how much Rafa needs), remember? "so there cost is already accounted for" - you know that to be true, do you? What if, out of this supposed £40m, G&H already regard £10m as having been spent? And what about the likes of Milito? Have G&H 'already accounted' for him too? If we get £12m for Bellamy then I will be very surprised (we paid £6m for him, he's had a poor season, and we always end up selling on the cheap - maybe more so now that people assume we're loaded). Also, from what Rafa was saying the other day do you think he's going to be happy with freebies and kids? For this "three top players for £40m + sales" view to be true some of the following have to happen: 1. Sales are going to have raise more than £20m 2. G&H disregard the money already spent on Lucas and Leto 3. Barcelona/Sevilla/etc. drop their valuations of their top players just for us, and ignore the benefits of a bidding war. I happen to think that G&H will support Rafa by getting him a clutch of top players, I just don't think the whole summer dealings will be done for £40m plus whatever we raise by flogging the likes of Craig Bellamy. Something's got to give, and I suspect it will either be American wallets or Xabi Alonso.

That would be good business - turning a profit on a player who has had a patchy season. Would just about fund a move for Owen.

Why are we worrying then? Why do we need G&H's money? Why is Rafa asking for significant funds if there are bargains out there just waiting to be picked off the 'cheap and class players' tree? Eto'o, Alves, and Simao would cost between £50 and £60m (and that's taking an optimistic view of Alves's worth, with Sevilla now pricing him at £25m). If summer sales raised £20m then we *might* be covered for these 'three class players', assuming the £40m kitty. But even taking into account these three new faces, the players we'd release would necessitate further buying to keep the squad size and quality even constant, let alone better. It's simple maths: Definitely out: Fowler, Zenden, Gonzalez, Dudek Probably out: Bellamy, Carson, Paletta, Hyypia Definitely in: Leto, Lucas, Veronin Hopefully in: three 'world class' players That leaves us two players short straight away, has already cost us £8-10m (Leto + Lucas), and would raise maybe £15m if we're lucky (i.e. clubs take our alleged valuation of Bellamy seriously). Furthermore, the very fact that Rafa is sniffing around Milito indicates that he is after more than just a 'world-class' striker and two 'world-class' wingers on top of the players like Lucas he's already purchased. Saying that "a couple of kids" will step up to fill these gaps is a *massive* assumption, especially given that precisely none ever seem to do so these days. Maybe some of the youngsters Rafa has brought in will be good enough, but we can't rely on that. And this is not to mention all the positional wrangles involved in such wholesale culling. We're losing at least one and up to three goalkeepers just for starters. Unless Lucas or Leto is handy with the gloves, Rafa's going to be looking for decent cover for Reina too if Carson isn't happy and Pardelli isn't up to scratch. I think it's clear that the only way £40m + player sales is going to cover the signings of the likes of Eto'o, Alves, and Simao is if some of those sales are more significant than we may like. Alonso springs to mind, what with CM being pretty much the only position where we have a surfeit of talent. The likes of Crouch and Pennant are probably expendable too, but would require replacements. Otherwise, 'three world-class signings' along with the rest of the required purchases is a pipe dream.