ion

We are the famous, the famous Kloppites! Or already done..?

Little Red Rossiter.

This is the crux of the issue for the public and press. Whatever the nuances, they will never be able to conceive that it doesn't inherently carry racist intent. The FA, however, have called in the experts who say that it can and frequently is used without racist intent, and the rest the case attempts to prove the intent. The retracted/whitewashed "ten times" claim in that scenario would have significance. Having accepted that in native usage it can be used without intent however, they then apply English usage. A few pages back I gave the example of the C-word having hugely different weights in Spanish and English. Later it emerged in the report that Evra did use one version of the C-word - which the report states is offensive in translation, and so much so it wouldn't even give a translation for English speaker to judge for themselves in the same way they have judged the word "negro". On top of that, the report said that Evra's offense should be judged in terms of native usage and understanding, granting Evra exemption from the only tool they've used to condemn Suarez with. It's an intriguing can of worms they have opened: Could we in the foreseebable future condemn two Arab footballers for sexism for using the word "bint" in conversation between them within earshot of an English female linesman? Or would they be granted "cultural immunity" like Evra?

Quite right. This is part of the groundless nonsense used to justify the whole thing. Even some of the writers sympathetic to Suarez have hinted that perhaps he was under some sort of moral obligation to know, one even suggesting that the club should have warned him about the word before he used it. This would open up a massive hole if players and anyone else started to act in bad faith. Europe is not a homognenous society. It also has over 200 languages. The implied asumptions that Holland is culturally "a bit like England" and "they all speak good English" is patronizing, ignorant and verging on the racist in itself. Cultures and languages, even ones that are apparently similar on the surface, can be incredibly diverse in detail. The way we use the word *b--g-r* quite openly in England, for instance, is impossible in many other European societies and languages. It may be regarded as extremely offensive, and it may also be untranslatable in such a way as to capture the original force and literal meaning in the English language and culture. Just like the word Suarez is assumed to have used. In Spanish the C-word is common commodity, you can even hear respectable folk use it in the media. For us, it is one of the most offensive words we have. So, by way of an example - of which there would millions if we looked at every language and culture represented by players playing in England - what do we do in England if a Spaniard uses the C-word in English against an English player? What do we do if a Spaniard uses the C-word in English against a Spanish player? Or a Spaniard use it in Spanish against a fellow Spaniard, who because of both their knowledge of English claims offense? What do we do if an English player overhears a Spaniard use the C-word in English against a Spanish teammate and the latter takes no offense but the English player does? What do we do if a non-British/non-Spanish player who has a limited knowledge of Spanish overhears a Spaniard use the C-word in Spanish against a Spanish teammate, and assumes the word has the same value as in English and England? What do we do if a non-Spanish, non-English player with limited knowledge of Spanish , and for whom the word in his own language and culture is extremely offensive, overhears the same conversation? Etc and so on. (And I won't even get started on European torurnament match scenarios!) What if a player, of any nationality or language, uses a word that sounds remarkably like, but is not identical to, a word in any language or nationality that is deemed offensive? The realms of absurdity are mindboggling. In the end, it comes down to usage, misunderstandings and different interpretations of language and culture, so any accusation will rest on the charge that offense is intended. That is something that is virtually impossible to prove or disprove beyond doubt where common usage trumps literal or etymological meaning, which is in fact most of the words we use. It means that almost anything can be offensive and almost anyone can be offended. For those wishing to act in bad faith, it also puts those who speak more than one language - however badly - at a massive advantage as well. And all this is before we even get into religious or xenophobic or gender or sexual orientation offenses... The idea that clubs should warn players of all language - including the latest colloquial expressions - in all languages and countries represented by players in the English league is as absurd as trying to count the stars in the sky. Just watching them come up with a list of English expressions that might be offensive to only English people, let alone all the nationalities playing in England, would be fun. It cannot be done. That leaves it open for players to punished for crimes which are only crimilized after the sentence. Each new incident can only be treated as an unfortunate learning experience, not as a punishable offense.

"first you have to learn about Shankly, Paisley and Kenny Dalglish." They're the blood line of this club.

"I believe this action played a significant role in their departures" If it has proved effective, I think we should all do the same as chewie

He also isn't afraid of getting up the pitch. He provided the "assist" for the Suarez/Kuyt first goal

Rushie! Liverpool scoring legend runs viewers through his favourite goals while exploring a range of fast active hallucinogenic drugs, many of them for the first time.

I bet he physically threw up when we sold Torres for 50 million That with Babel and some loose change came out as 20% of the club's sale price

Ronaldo did kind of flit in and out of good years and bad, but you could argue that the peak Ronaldo we think of - his year at Barcelona - was never quite replicated anywhere else. He had the advantage though, as a striker, of replacing what pace and athleticism he had with bulldozer qualities not available to most fast strikers to complement his skills. I don't know enough about Del Piero to comment , but Gerrard's a fair call. Although he's had to adjust his game numerous times. He hasn't been the all goal-scoring, all- tackling, all-passing and crossing phenomenon he once was for a few years now and which bracketed him among the most sought-after players in the world. What I'm wondering I suppose is, on average, what is the peak performance life expectancy of a top level footballer, and particularly strikers reliant on bursts of pace and sharp reactions? Whether through injury or physical or mental tiredness, could our thinking in letting Torres go for 50 mill be that chances are he's very likely to only be on a downward curve from on, and perhaps has already started since a while back? You'd imagine that the training boffs would have a lot of data at hand for this sort of thing..

Out of interest, how many strikers do we know of who were stars at 17 and stayed at the very top of their game beyond the age of 27? I think of Owen, Fowler, Raul, all had faded by then I think. How many footballers in any position, other than perhaps goalkeeper and central defender, stay at there very best for longer than 10 years?

Cheers. So effectively getting Chelsea to pay Torres for us to accept the request. "LIttle victories,Godber. Little victories..."

I'd like to know this: if handing in a transfer request mean th eplayers waives some sort of pay-off when he's sold, then how do things stand contratually when that request is "refused" and the player is still sold? Just out of curiosity.

I'm hoping he'll be told he can't go until the summer. He can then offer an apology, say he panicked and got bad advice, and play his heart out like never before alongside Suarez to ensure he gets the move he wants at the end of the season when they'll be a lot more competition in the market but possibly for a lot more options. It's happened before - Tevez - and probably in countless other cases we never found out about. And if he does that, and Suarez comes good as well, he might find he's changed his mind by then, and if not, so be it. The right words and a couple of the right performances and it can be done to the benefit of the club. Within a couple of weeks we would be looking forward to a much brighter future with or without Torres.

Anyone think Hodgson might try and set us up to lose six nil so he can show the owners what a fantastic team he can produce if given time? 'Course, it'd probably mean us wnning six nil, but that's by the by...