Big E

Signing Barry makes sense. It gives us even more cover at LB and LM which is a bonus, and we need another CM as gerrard doesn't play any more and that only leaves Lucas as backup. He's also a more attacking option than Mascherano when we're at home, and his set pieces (a weakness of ours) are often overlooked. Then that a LW with pace who can play anywhere across the front, and a CF who can play either with Torres or more importantly on his own up front and be prepared to not be first choice. This is why Tevez wouldn't work for me, and why Heskey made tactical sense. We'd never get them, but Young and Carew would do the job perfectly and piss off O'Neill nicely . If there's one player out there who can do both jobs we're laughing, but I don't know any contenders Apart from that, cover/competition for RB, and a backup CB depending on what's left in the pot. This is assuming there's no youngsters about to make the jump, which doesn't look likely right now. All that would mean Babel, Doss, Voronin, Leto, and any other youngsters/fringe players could be used to raise funds. I'd keep Lucas as 4th choice if we can afford it, he's still young with potential and we'd not make a profit if we sold him.

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Better than Ronaldo. One player like him and we'd storm the league.

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I read somewhere that Rafa only wanted Keane if he got Barry, so had a formation in mind we can't play now for some reason and Keane suffered as a result.

Doesn't Barry take their set pieces. Can't think why Rafa wanted him.

Bearing in mind Rafa was prepared to let Alonso go, I can only assume Gerrard Masch Barry 2 of Babel/Keane/Kuyt Torres Was his planned formation. Or even Keane behind Torres with Gerrard in CM - But he's played that about 3 times. The fact he's not even making the bench makes you think Rafa has made his mind up and wants rid. Pity, I thought it would work. As for the values, well that seems it's not Rafa's fault. Keane leaving wouldn't be much of a loss bearing in mind how little he's playing, but it could backfire if we don't add anyone. The only realistic option seems Lennon (plus £5m maybe) and would be good if Rafa rates him, and would give us the winger we needed in summer. Otherwise you'd hope any Keane money will be used to add extra £ to spend this summer. Or a cheeky bid for Arshavin

Milan away, certainly.

Gerrard is good in the hole, but not in the classic 10 role with little passes round the box - Beardsley, Dalglish, Bergkamp etc. I think we miss that, and also that we need more goals from that position as the rest of the team aren't contributing enough. he should be in the box more from that position, but it's not his game. Which is why Rafa bought Keane, with Gerrard in CM. That allows Gerrard to still do what he does best, driving forward, long shots and longer passing. He may score less goals, but the addition of Keane means overall we'll score more and we have another matchwinner. We may suffer defensively a bit, but hey it's worth it. Gerrard has always perplexed me - great player, but doesn't have the touch or goals of a #10 and has never really excelled in CM. I still his best football was on the right of a 442 (23 goals was it one year), and playing him there would accomodate all our best players. Exactly what we need, is Ribery - pace, dribbles, play anywhere. There's other options but he's a better bet than the likes of Silva. Ashley young would have been good, I wanted him when Villas bought him. There's no realistic equivalent, Valencia seems suitable though and could be worth a gamble at about 22. Heskey seems most likely and could play 2 positions. Also proven, it makes sense and is a typical Rafa signing. It all depends if he's given money and can selll anyone. Can't see us getting much.

I can't see him starting with Torres - Torres likes to lead alone, that's why the Crouch partnership didn't work and Crouch was sold. He'll be a cover signing, with the bonus of being able to play RW if needed. I think it will really help Keane though, who is best behind a lead striker (the role he was bought for and has played about 5 times). Even if Heskey doesn't score many, if it helps Keane get 10-15 goals like he helped owen it's money well spent. It doesn't say much for any of the other strikers though, which is a pity for Ngog but Rafa wants solid options. The annoying thing is that Babel could/should be doing this role, and the combination of his play and Rafa's use of him means we're interested in a player we shouldn't need. If Babel could even do RW well it would free up Kuyt. What we really need is a decent, flexible wide player(Ribery would be ideal from who I know of), but for the money available Heskey is a very good signing. Unlike Robbie Emile still has pace and power, and his contribution is more than goals.

most/all home games against 'smaller' teams have been 442, so that's what I'd expect. One of the more attacking steps made this year.

There's a bit of speculation about the likes of Owen/Henry, but there's other areas need looking at. So what do people think we need in January? How much will we get to spend? And who could we actually get? I reckon Pennant will go if we can get rid, and I could handle Yossi or even Babel going if we got a good replacement. I reckon £5m from the Yanks, if anything. I think our right side still looks weak beyond Kuyt (who's played well but needs to continue his goalscoring), though I'd like to see Babel get a go. And we're short of goals with the defence unlikey to contribute. We're relying on Gerrard/Torres/Keane really, and another striker means we're replacing Keane probably and not adding goals in another position. Riera/Babel are ok for the left, tho short of goals again. The LB won't be changed, Dossena has to get a chance, and prob the same for the RB's. So it's a goalscoring wide player really, who could also play up front or allow Kuyt to go there occasionally. Exactly what we needed in the summer. I have no idea who we could get, if Babel lived up to his potential we'd be ok. A striker would be useful, but only as cover really.

The whole issue is that we need someone who can play alone if Torres isn't fit, or we're forced to play 442. and that's not Owen. When Torres is fit Keane would be a better partner. Keane/Owen as a partnership might be ok, but we'd effectively only need owen when Torres isn't fit. Heskey would make more sense tactically if Torres is injured, though we'd never score all season. Babel needs to get a go against WHU in a 442 with Keane. When the alternative is 451 with Keane up top, what have we got to lose?

but improvement is a great one

Bring a winger called Babel on, And he'll skin Wes Brown. He'll stick it in the net, and leave United crying or Babel on the wing, la-la-la-la-la! We've got Babel on the wing, la-la-la-la-la-la Babel on the wing, la-la-la-la-la! He looks(plays?) like he's Johnny Barnes's son! BA-BEL!

This is how I see it. If we'd got him, I would have thought Rafa wanted Barry to play left of a midfield 3 with Gerrard on the right and Babel, Torres, Keane up front. It was foolhardy to base the entire formation on one player, yet we chased him so hard he was clearly important. If Barry was meant to be one of 2 but just an improvement on Alonso then the above formation is the obvious one, with Keane planned for the hole rather than the right. One issue I have though is Gerrard. For me his best position is on the right of a midfield 4, or a 3 as mentioned above. This allows him to drive from midfield, removing the responsibility in the centre but still in the middle of the pitch to benefit from his tackling and breaking forward. I wonder whether Kuyts role will isolate him more, pushing up the pitch and wide. It also is a role that suits a dribbler such as ronaldo/Silva to come in from wide, and that's not him. I know players will move around, but you saw the problems at the weekend with players drifting in. The other issue is Keane. You have to assume that it's him or Gerrard planned for the right if the other is in the hole. We have 2 players who are best suited to the central role, and neither have the attributes or inclination to be perfect on the right of a front 3. So maybe it's a 442 after all, with Gerrard and Babel/Riera on the wings and Keane doing what Kuyt was bought to do? It's all very confusing

I'm sure it's been done to death, but is there any reason why no one's being linked with Ashley Young? He looks the business to me, though would probably £20m

Clearly But the ones i mentioned are those who really need to step up their game in addition to everyone else at least matching last season's performances.

Agree with this, our mentality is key. There's been a few occasions where we've felt hard done by against the big 4, we need to turn these into results and even win the games we shouldn't. We could have had bad luck, but can we can't keep blaming that. Our early games against our main rivals will be good indicators and could shape our season.

This is how I feel. If we're playing the formation we used last season, it means Keane on the right or less likely in the hole. I don't watch him every week, but I didn't think that suited him despite his mobility. I wanted a Silva like winger or a goalscoring Pennant for that role. Also, Alonso can play as one of 2CM's but the move for Barry suggests a change in formation to more of a 4-3-3 with width from the fulbacks. I'm sure we could have had Silva for the Barry price, so unless Rafa doesn't rate him and there's no other suitable wingers it seems like a conscious choice to change. Maybe our formation last year was just tailored to the players we had at the time. Babel and the fullbacks need to have good seasons for us to make a strong challenge.

Ok, I should have phrased it properly. I'f we're building a title challenging team, with Keane and Torres as the front 2, Where will Gerrard play? And are you expecting us to sign a winger such as Silva? Or more likely someone like Downing? I don't think we'll play 5 at the back very often, though Degen/Aurelio/Dossena seem perfectly suited and it would solve the width problem. A 433 could work, but it would still involve Keane on the Right wouldn't it? Babel Torres Keane Barry Masch Gerrard

So who are our wide players?

All of my thinking about next years team/signings has been on the assumption we'll play a version of 4321/433 as we were last year. However we're still not bidding for a genuine RW, and Barry/Keane are looking like our two main signings. I rate Keane, but I'm not sure how well he would play the right sided role. One of the major limitations here is Gerrard IMO, in that he can't be as effecitive in a midfield 2. That leaves the 'hole' role and RM (his best position I feel), but he doesn't like it there With the players we're after, a 442 with Babel/Gerrard wide and Torres/Keane up front looks the most balanced. Do you reckon this will happen? Or is there another signing on the way?

I assume Villa can play a right sided attacking role, but I'd happily shift Gerrard to the right to accomodate him in a 442.

Compare that to Man U and Chelsea.