Elisha_Scott

Good point actually, give me your number and I will tell him to give you a call, wouldn't want you not enjoying the World Cup because the England captain wouldn't defy Capello.

Starting tonight and continuing every night during the World Cup is a new series featuring the top 50 players of all time. I have seen some of them and its a great series.

Out of order! He is the captain of England going into the World Cup and there is no need to comment on his future just because there is speculation in the papers. He has all sorts said about him and is asked about his future 100 times a season and has been for the last 5 years, its pointless answering the same question all the time. Plus, Capello would have a fit if he started commenting in club stuff right now and rightly so.

Tosspot

Yeah thats pretty much my take on it too....One more season he owes us.

People blow smoke all the time, I cant go into detail over certain things, I wish I could sometimes. He was off if Rafa had stayed.

With all due respect mate, he hasn't got mates who live in Birkdale, and none of his mates would be telling people in the boozer anything like that.

I think with Yossi, Chelsea have really gone to town making him feel wanted and maybe his move is too far along and his mind is already made up. I hope the Torres situation is different though, I think if he leaves he should be ashamed of himself.

I agree that the players need to take some blame too.....But this is my whole point, the buck stops with the manager. Players are in a more priveleged position cos they aren't held as accountable as the manager, but that is part of the skills of being a manager, to make them individually accountable. There are loads of differing opinions obviously and I believe in mine, thats all. If we get great new owners in with a few quid and a good manager who gets us going again will people still be pining for Rafa?

No, 2 of them were definitely off if Rafa stayed. I dont know if its too late to salvage, but at least we have a chance.

We are in danger of losing at least 2 of them cos of Rafa. You obviously haven't managed to comprehend my point of view. I have not defended Wenger at all.

You mean where I mentioned that we haven't won a trophy for 4 years? Grow up, its a fact. I never derided all the games he has managed us in but we haven't won anything for 4 years.

Where have I badmouthed his record mouth almighty?

We are going around in circles here. I think Wenger at Arsenal gets away with murder cos he is a media darling. His teams play great football but ultimately flatter to deceive. Ferguson was lucky to keep his job but it has been vindicated. He is the exception rather than the rule though.

I have f***ing said it! And the 4 seasons without a trophy is not nonsense, its true. I never said you were a prick, I said you were 'being a prick' - I dont need to justify my football knowledge to you....The fact that I know a player is besides the point.

What did I say that warranted quoting and arguing with? We haven't won anything for 4 years and last season was appalling.

O'Neill wont get it, he fell out with Dalglish at Celtic. Players fall out with managers all the time, thats a moot point.

You are being a prick....Where have I said Rafa is a failure??? He has a short life span at clubs, he is not the type to build a dynasty somewhere. 'Decent centre mid' - Thats generous of you.........Rafa played him in a position where he was exceptional, and for that he deserves the credit. This is like arguing with a child, its as if people arent allowed to make a negative point about Rafa without being pulled about something totally unrelated. Rafa has gone and I am glad.

Can I not make a point without 'my mate' being brought up? I am saying that being able to keep a squad motivated and inspired is a very tricky side to management, Rafa didn't manage it last season.....Of course the players are culpable for results too, but the buck ultimately stops with the manager.

I think for a manager to be successful over a period of time then man-management skills are one of a number of important skills. So Torres was a 'maybe-something' player?? No, he was an unproven potentially world class striker. And yes he got a lot out of 'my mate' but 'my mate' also had everything in his locker. It wasn't like he was struggling along until Rafa came, he was top drawer pre-2004. 'man management can f*** off. results as a manager are all that matter. and the names i listed certainly put getting results for their teams ahead of stroking the odd ego.' -Quite right and we haven't won anything for 4 years and finished 7th last season losing 19 games......Results ARE all that matter!

It was, but at least we still had the player. My point is that he needs to constantly change the backroom staff and squad because his methods of getting the maximum from people tend to be over short periods of time. He has one way and one way only. I am not Rafa bashing, just trying to explain some reasons for being glad he has gone. I am sure he will go to Inter and do really well and then, a few years down the line he will hit a brick wall again and move on. I bet you that not many of his ex-players would like to play for him again, not saying all, but most.

I think the treatment of Alonso was a major part of the problem.

Absolute b******s. I never have hated Rafa, I dont agree with some of his decisions but I dont hate him. If I thought he was the right man for the job I would have loved him to stay. I just think he had ran his course at LFC. Those players you named who were sold for falling out with Ferguson - what does it prove? I would imagine in his 24 years at Man U he has upset a few people cos of his single-mindedness (same as Kenny, Paisley, Shankly etc.....) but he also inspires people and has had players wanting to play for him in all that time too. Disagree with me if you want but dont try to paint me as so shallow that I would want Rafa to go cos he made a strange substitution 3 years ago.

Nice try mate......

Why is it seen as some sort of irrelevant thing that Rafa has terrible people skills? If he had stayed another season we would have lost some of our best players for sure. The number 9 being one, at least now we have half a chance of keeping him. Also, it had gone too far for him to turn it around, most of the players had stopped being inspired by him and results showed it. I am not a Rafa lover or hater, I am a supporter of LFC and want whats best for the club. In my and some others opinion Rafa leaving is a positive. If he had finished fourth and we had just had a bit of a 'blip' I could understand people saying he 'hasn't been sacked for football reasons' but I genuinely think he needed to go. The Rafa who was here for the first couple of years is not the Rafa that has just left. Like I said, I think he has a limited time span at any one particular club due to how he handles players coldly. It also might account for the high turnover of players. And some of the managers Stevie H mentioned have unbelievably good man-management skills, Ferguson and Wenger in particular.