JRC

Pretty sure the VAR screen came up as possible offside and then the disallowed reason as offside. He was in an offside position undoubtedly, but became active when he 'impacted' the play, supposedly. It was never called as a foul. What's annoying is that the slightest touch off a Chelsea player would have negated the offside (as per Lovren/Kane/Jon Moss a few years back) - a ridiculous change - yet Endo being within a metre of another player in as crowded box gets called.

Jota's was given as a foul iirc, just not a red card.

Some classic McNulty in his BBC Sport Online '5 Talking Points from the match' report. The non-penalty decision is naturally one of them, but whilst McNulty agrees it should have been given, he caveats it by mentioning how hard done by City have been in this game on previous occasions in terms of contentious decisions. And by mentions I mean 4 times in one discussion point. Obsessed.

Didn't know much about Hughes, but we have always sniggered about how much we blagged Bournemouth into paying for Ibe etc. Except they may now be looking at a good return if they sell Solanke, as well as the benefit of his goals return these past years, so swings/roundabouts. More impressed with his offending the little Englanders by binning off O'Neil for Iraola and sticking with him despite the mocking. (Not to say O'Neil isn't a decent coach - he worked under Klopp for a bit, didn't he?, - or that Iraola won't ultimately fail; but I quite like the cut of his jib atm)

Pleased to see him getting a run out, he was definitely hyped, maybe over-hyped, but seemed to be another emerging superstar who doesn't cut it. May still not, but at least there is a possibility he'll have a career.

See also Jamie O'Hara and Gary Neville. End of Days.

Oh he definitely does, and it is a fraction of a second after he blows the whistle. But given the refs decision process - assessing the nature of the head injury, what context applies for the restart, stop the game - is prior to him actually blowing, it is entirely reductive to fume about that fraction of a second between the Forest lad touching the ball and the whistle being audible. The ruling about restarts from head injury stoppages is just fundamentally not one where should expect to apply VAR or Hawkeye type technology to determine exactly the point of the game stopping. Nearly all the fuming, especially from pundits, has been because they didn't know the rule about it being in the area means it goes to the goalie. In this case the Ref knew better and applied it entirely in the way intended. (All notwithstanding that the Kung Fu leap by the Forest player - whether he caught Konate or not - should have been penalised)

Shearer and the Guardian piece both nod at the explanation of Tierney's decision(s) without clarifying, as their whole position becomes farcical. By the rules, if the ball is in or was last played in the penalty area before the game is stoped, the ball is given uncontested to the defending keeper. He blows a fraction of a second before, and Hudson-Odoi hasn't yet touched it, and there is literally no case to answer. So the fume (and the demand for a PGMOL apology) is predicated entirely on whether or not the game is magically stopped only when the whistle is heard (it isn't, he could have raised his hand, for example), or whether it was at that point when he decided he was going to stop the game for the head injury - which was how he applied the rule, as written, both times. The actual blow of the whistle is to bring his decision to the attention of the players, it's not like we should have snicko or freeze frames to determine the precise millisecond it happened. Jenas's 'everything changes' position is both true and ridiculous of course. 20 minutes earlier he gave a goal kick that should have been a corner to us, so this whole situation would never have arisen in a parallel universe, but I suspect he won't be expecting we should get an apology from PGMOL. Can't believe I'm defending this useless clown show of a bunch of refs, but there you go.

Also our enforcer. Was straight over when Chilwell was being a t*** with Bradley, no-one fancies fronting him up.

Elder statesman-like

Just using his name in the old school 'Valore' chant would be a start (there's probably a twist changing the woah-oh-oh-oh to Ibou-ou-ou-ou, not sure it would catch on).

If the first was the cynical Chilwell foul, there was another player who realised he could carry on being a t*** until he finally stepped over a mark even Kavanagh couldn't miss (although mitigating it by booking Bradley as well, unfairly) - Chilwell should already have been off by that point.

And Greek...

Wow. I think Joelinton got away with 5 and it was virtually unprecedented. And wasn't one of Caicedo's a very deliberate, cynical handball?

TBF, I think that offside rule has been applied before, iirc - last time we met them in the Caraboa Cup final Matip had a goal disallowed because Virgil was offside and James or someone couldn't easily move into a position where he still couldn't affect the goal anyway. So there you have it - only comes out the CC final against us Vs them, like Brigadoon. Sorted, good process lads. Btw, anyone got Caiceidos foul count yesterday, looked to be beating the record Joelinton set earlier this season for uncarded persistence even without the waved away one that got our lad stretchered off.

Endo was stood offside, as is always true of someone, but the implication of that decision is that every goal from a free kick now needs checking for any attacking player being a toe nail offside in case they moved in the general direction of the ball or passed within a metre of a defender, even if they are not the scorer or were even anywhere near them.

Good point. Jurgens brilliance this season has probably been seen in his in-play changes, especially subs in the last 30 minutes - the heightened pressure of extant and potential injuries atm, plus the possibility of a further 30 minutes, make that even harder. Good job he's a f***ing miracle worker.

Don't think we should look so far afield, need to go local.

"So that's what I'm going to do now"

Souness was an assassin, and as a genuine hardman would never take a backward step or be intimidated. Always think Ronnie Whelan was underestimated as a hard man - more so than his higher profile hard reputation partner McMahon. His removal of the dangerous Mark Chamberlain (AOCs dad) from the 92 semi final at Highbury was brutal and thoroughly professional. From olden days, few were harder than Dave McKay - who, iirc, was an idol of the younger Souness. Honourable mention for Johnny Morrissey - nippy little winger, but gave significantly better than he got. One of only 2 names, apparently, left uncrossed in Jack Charlton's little black book of retribution when Jack retired.

The lino was literally stood next to it as well. Felt like he was trolling Klopp into a second yellow it was so egregious.

Not helped by 2 massively incompetent assistant referees. Aside from missing fouls under their noses or direct line of sight, neither gave a decision on a throw-in or corner/goal kick without checking with ref first, even when he was clearly wrong (both ways, generally). Tierney was on VAR at Luton for those shambolic penalty shouts. Of course. He's bald as well now, isn't he? Conspiracy!

Seen it since, and by the standards of the day, it was probably correct as Keegan was moving back from an offside position when Lindsay knocks the first ball in to him. Shame, would have been an all time great Final goal, and we deserved 4-0

I'll give you that he had an awkward gait - one of his best games was on an ice covered pitch which didn't seem to affect him as much as everyone else because his run was so awkward anyway - and his form period was short, not least due to a really bad injury he never recovered fully from; but this is what Kenny had to say about the 86 final "Headlines were being prepared in salute of Rushie and Jan. In the dressing room we all rushed to congratulate Kevin MacDonald," Dalglish said. "He got in among Everton's midfield, taking the fight to Reidy, reclaiming the ball time after time. Never one of the most celebrated footballers, Kevin Mac will always be remembered fondly for the turning the Blue Tide back at Wembley in May 1986." Another hot take? In the iconic 5-1 demolition of Forest in 88, our best player was Spackman.

Beat me to it. We were outstanding that night, should have won by more. Was brutal around Villa Park getting out, those lovely Hammers weren't happy and kept launching attacks from the side streets. Wast there in 74 as well, which was comprehensive to say the least, although there were the usual fears when first half dominance didn't lead to a goal - soon put it right in the 2nd, and one of the most one-sided finals you're likely to see. And don't diss Kevin MacDonald. His form was a prime reason for us catching Everton and winning the 86 double, after a really difficult start with us - legitimately kept McMahon out of the team for half a season.