JRC

I disagree, and it seems to me that DannyD's explanation as to why he is writing this now is that the Everton argument about how their plight was directly due to Heysel, whilst easily dismissed and ignored a bitter ranting for the most part, has recently been granted a spurious credence - especially following the 4th place vs CL Winners debate last year - to the extent that non-bitters now appear to accept the premise as axiomatic. The blog is generally a reasonable and reasoned debunking of that. Pointing out the ludicrous fallacies in the bitter's position doesn't deny the moral argument - People dying is more significant than a Football Club subsequently being crap - but he should take care - and I believe he does - not to lose that perspective.

Their argument is more that WE should have been banned, but not them - and all other things being equal, we wouldn't have been in the 85-6 European Cup anyway. Juventus were though, and had a significantly stronger claim to being potential winners - but they didn't even reach the final. There is little reason to suggest Everton would have won in 86.

Does he? I read it that he will act as the host to Jose when they are at Anfield, and 'offer him the best' - not wait for Jose to come to him.

A great, well-rersearched and presented read. I think the 'Murderers' chanters would never read/accept/understand this, but there is a whole apparently reasonable revisionist position ('No Fault Of Their Own') that HAS to be countered. I realised that there was more to come, and appreciated the detail and research DannyD had already done, so assumed some - probably all - of my points would get covered, so it was a mixture of getting my long-held opinions aired first AND perhaps adding some more that DannyD can use if I mentioned anything he wasn't going to - I particularly like the fact about subsequent prompt Relegation for the other English Winners. The detail on the FA/UEFA positions etc is excellent, and new to me, although I was well aware at the time of the fact that it was English Football in general that was on trial - if Heysel hadn't happened, then another incident would have been the one that broke the camel's back. What I would have avoided is the Urchins stuff - not that it isn't true, but it's a bit close to 'lovable cheeky scouser' territory, which we sometimes get accused of - just that we also had some nasty hard b*stards; I know because, attending games in London from a College location, I had to go unidentified, so just as often got chased by our own. I recall tales (by fellow Reds) of a vicious crew called the Anny Road Apaches (whilst acknowledging the mythological nature of much of these tales), and oppo fans stories of Stanley usage being not too far from the truth. I would agree though, that around town at the time, it was the Bluenoses who had - and enjoyed, and took pride in, and boasted about - the reputation for having 'soldiers' and well-organised Firms.

Absolutely. That was clearly one of the things Rafa picked up from his first season, and started to put right last year with Momo and re-deploying Xabi to an extent. (He doesn't get pushed around, but he doesn't really give it out). Even Crouch was bought for similar reasons, albeit more in a football/difficult to play aginst way than for being hard in a fight. If anything, Stevie is too hot-headed to do that kind of stuff - see the Everton game. The best hard men/enforcers have always been more calculating - Smith, Case, Souness, Whelan. Let's not get too sentimental or idealistic about this. Shankly and Paisley thought the same. Rafa will do what needs to be done, and 'winning the right to play' is as true today as ever.

Actually, he used to sit near me in the Main Stand, and was a moaning, miserable b@stard. * * The last bit isn't true, but the bit about him sitting in the Main Stand is. Blokes behingd me are serial moaners, and it gets on my t*ts. On Saturday, it was all about how 's****" Zonal Marking is, and was last year. I felt like asking whether that was specifically during the record clean sheet run , or generally in our 2nd best defensive record in the league season, but thought that there is never any point arguing with someone who is repeating an opinion they heard on the telly from someone who doesn;t know what they are talking about, but says it with conviction.

In the first leg, I said to my Lad that Pennant must have thought he'd died and gone to heaven, the way Xabi looked for, and found, him, glued to the touchline, at every opportunity. Let's nit jump to any conclusiond, or write the season off, just yet

Wasn't that Carson? Or was there another one? The Carson one was pretty well unstoppable, tbh. I really wanted Chris to succeed - he was a genuine Boyhood Red, but almost everty game he played in that extended run had him with that forlorn, hands outstretched, palms up look - "how did you expect me to stop that one?" as another moderate on target shot found it's way past him. Reina is our Future, and for that we must be eternally grateful.

US Marketing (of the kit) is entirely the manufacturer's responsibility, not the club's

So Groundshare is in your Top 10 then? Traitor!

He'll have an easy time at Bolton, apart from the crick in his neck as the ball passes over.

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Evans broke the transfer record with Collymore, and was given the support to get the likes of Wright - the England Centre Half - and Ince amongst others (e.g. Leonhardsson!). Evans may not have had the advantage of 4th place getting you into Europe, but that's because the placings are determined by Euro success for PL Teams - and in those days there was only ManU of any Euro staure, or genuine quality - no Chelsea, Arsenal were, for the most, pre-Wenger. So our slipping League positions in the mid-90's were more indicative of the malaise afflicting the club than can be guaged from direct comparisons with today's EPL - last years 3rd was better than anything under Evans, for example. Houllier's first signings were not expensive - Hyyppia, Henchoz, Westerveld etc - as the club was in a genuine pickle at the time - high wages to income ratio and slipping performance, irregular European cash, poor discipline and attitude; Houllier was only given the cash to splash (and waste, agreed) following the improved handling of the squad assets and the successes of 2001 which gave us some of our best financial results in years (and cemented us in G14, possibly crucial to our continued corporate status) - if anything, Evans blew the legacy of the earlier success, Geds at least blew the legacy of his own. No-one is asking for Ged to come back, nor for us to be blind to the failings of his regime - just hopeful, I feel, that the some respect for the positives in his regime, and pleasure in his continued good health and good luck, can be expressed.

All sounds a bit better-natured than the rather sniffy newspaper comments (Mail? Telegraph?) about one of the Hotels being renamed 'Little Liverpool'

FWIW, in Tom Bower's 'Broken Dreams', a scathing attack on the corruption at the heart of Professional Football, and the associated greed, mendacity and hypocrisy of various administrators, managers, agents and club officials, Parry is mentioned as one of the best respected (and honest) CEO/MD in the EPL, and a fine negotiator. Sack him anyway. Top, top post

Haven't we all missed the big question? "with a fairy or £10million (?14m) being mentioned." Who, exactly, was mentioned?

No Alonso either? I thought it was our Xabi that was, allegedly, the centre of attention on those occasions when the boys hit Garlands?

Another point on the unfavourable comparisons being made between us and Arsenal. Apart from the fact that Arsenal appear to be able to have an easier process - better land to build on, council support, more 'opportunities' for return on investment at Ashburton Grove, commercial potential at Highbury - the whole thing came within days of going pear-shaped (remember the Newspaper Front Pages of site apparently shut down while they desperately sorted out a cash injection). Yet it appears possible that we may well complete our ground in around the same time frame as them (c. 7 years). Even so, that ignores the fact that their imperative to move was much greater than ours - yes we do lose out every match day vs MAnU, and even the Toon, but Arsenal have been losing the same and a whole lot more for years - what may prove to be their most productive years, as well. If we have 3 years of lower crowds than Arsenal, that scarcely compares to the last 13 years (sorry to slip into 'Premiership' years, but it's a reasonable mark for capacity crowds) where Highbury held - what 10K leass then Anfield per game? Above all, the Board are undertaking the management of risk. This project, done wrong, could easily break the club.

I seem to recall he was actually seen in his car, leaving Melwood, just after Fowler left us....presumably heading for the Estate Agents

Compare and contrast.. Henry, his team's leading light, captain and talisman, had 2 vital chances in his team's biggest game of the season - both missed. For the second, he claimed to have a dead leg (presumably from the kicking he had taken) so couldn't hit it properly. Think of another such talisman - 2 chances...biggest game...never mind a dead leg, he could barely walk a minute earlier, but still had enough to hit a 35 yard screamer. Great players - and Henry is undoubtedly that - become legends if they DELIVER when it counts. God bless Stevie G.

Wilson must be the least informed and woeful football journalist in a senior position. If you read his Match report, apart from saying West Ham outplayed us - which they didn't - he manages not to provide any image, insight or adjectival flourish re Gerrards second goal - a casual mention in passing that Gerrard 'smacked' an equaliser past Hislop. If you didn't see the game, you would have no concept of the power, drama or magnificence of 'one of the best goals in FA Cup Final history'. Muppet.

Although - with the strange 'Letter to Benitez' story, Ferguson appears to have been more gracious over our victory than Jose (obviously) or Wenger. I've never heard any public comments in which he dismissed or derided our acheivements.

Collins must have a problem - he did the same 2 years ago after we were awarded a penalty (which Van Der Saar saved). He was so enraged, Coleman had to take him off almost immediately before the Ref gave him a second yellow - he was totally out of control.

Remeber Barmby's late goal against Leeds in the FA Cup? Robbie's dribble and cross from the left wing was better than anything anyone has done for us since...

Nicky Tanner. Once got taken off after half an hour having failed to connect with the ball on every occassion it came near him, and had turned into a quivering mass of nerves. Got a sympathetic clap, but never played again.