kop205

'Long drive'? Has he taken up f***ing golf? And is this the same player who you have been slagging off in other threads? (Or was that an attempt at humour?). We all know that our options up front leave a lot to be desired but no point showing up? Christ, you have posted some s**** in the last few days, most of which I've ignored, but this takes the f***ing biscuit. Our striking options were just as limited during the unbeaten run, and most if us weren;t getting carried away then cos we knew we were still a work in progress. Were you as miserable and critical then? If not, then you are having a major over reastion now. Get behind them. Fowler has shown flashes of encouraging form, Xabi is top class, we have Garcia to come back in at some point and a vastly improved Kewell. Recent poor results have been down to individual errors from a previously solid back line. When those stop (which they will), we'll be back on track.

Other than Nicol, has a full back ever won it though? Just doesn't happen really, they end to go for those who pay in more eye-cathcing positions. But Finnan has been excellent - again yesterday, no danger came down his side of the pitch.

Are you kidding? It is all Case went on about for months, confidently predicting that we would NEVER win anything of note under Rafa. He eventually took his ball home and disappeared when he got sick of getting dog's abuse everytime he posted. In fairness, he reappeared before the end of the season and by the end of it was big enough to admit that he was wrong. He was the most vocal but there wil definitely have been others. Seem to remember the general mood after Birmingham away last year was pretty dark, though not many were saying Rafa should go.

Pretty much my thoughts really. The unbeaten run we went on took us all by surprise and probably raised expectations unrealistically. The recent defeats have revealed nothing that we deep down didn't know already: - that none of Crouch, Cisse and Morientes are truly up the standard required (although I know some will disagree with Crouch) - that we desperately need a finisher. - that we have no tried and tested cover for the CB positions so that people can be given a rest (which is hurthing us at the moment as individual errors creep in). - that we have barely any players in the squad capable of beating a man. We should also remember thought that: - we have a top class manager - we have two of the best centre midfielders in the world and it will inevitably take something from us when one is injured and the other a bit out of form (although I didn't think Alonso was that bad last night, and his pass to Cisse was superb). - we still have an excellent goals against record - we have a core of 8/9 excellent players at the club who would get into most squads Given all of that, where we are now in the league probably isn't too far off where we are entitled to be. The end of the season will be time for a fuller judgement.

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I know. All the original post did was ask was whether it was loud or not because he felt it didn't sound it on the TV. The poster even mentioned the fact that he couldn't be sure because you can't rea;lly tell on TV. He freely admitted that he doesn't go to aways, which is why he was asking. He was hardly pasing criticism and actually invited people to correct him if he was wrong (which some have had he was, one has said he wasn't). It certainly not 'veiled criticism', so I have no idea why we have had such a precious reaction to such innocent comments .

Maybe the fact that if she is going on Thursday then she probably doesn't have a season ticket (as they go on sale on Tuesday) and will therefore be getting them on fancards has something to do with it. ..

Fair enough. Figured I would have heard a lot more about it if it had happened, so thought I'd better ask before pointing the finger! Guess this lad was mistaken, as he wasn't there. I assume he meant fans at the ground and not knobs in some oub he was watching in, but could be wrong.

Liverpool v Man Utd is like The Beatles v The Stones in their heyday - without doubt each others biggest rivals. Chelsea are the f***ing Monkees or some other manufactured boy band s**** who will burn bright for a while but never be remebered as anything other than a quirk of history when the dust has settled and their day in the sun is over. And yet, and yet...it is precisely for that reason that I hate Chelsea more at the moment, like I hate the likes of Westlife more than I do Oasis or their ilk. I wish Chelsea would f*** off and let me devote what energies I have left after supporting my own team (the mark of a REAL 'true red') to the business of hoping that Utd get dicked every week. As long as Chelsea are around, they actually remind me of what we have in common with Utd in terms of history and tradition etc (i.e. all of the things that CFC lack). This makes me hate Chelsea even more, as I have no wish to be made to 'identify' with Utd in any way, shape or form - and yet is undeniable that we have more in common with them than we do with Chelsea. And I would venture that efcrmagic's ire and presence in this thread hasd been provoked by the fact that his club rank a poor third in many of our minds in terms of who our rivals are, whereas whether he hates us or not, he can't deny that his club look at us their biggest rivals (although of course by his logic, it should be Newcastle, Birmingham and Portsmouth).

Can anyone who was there confirm whether or not they were singing 'Heysel', 'Hillsborough' and 'Murderers'? Mate of mine swears that thye were.

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One ticket per fancard.

Don't hide behind the fact that I left out a question mark, that is f***ing pathetic. But if we are insisting on quoting people properly, then when you quote me then at least atempt to answer the points that I have made instead of simply saying (a load of b******s deleted) and trying to draw attention to one tiny and irrelevant detail. Answer the other points I made - tell me why I'm not as pissed off with all the other nationalities in our sqaud as I am with Cisse. But you don't need to, do you? You know the answer. It is because I for one don't give a s*** where Cisse comes from provided he has the quality and puts in the graft required to play for us. Some of our players lack one or the other, but for me he is unique in this squad at the moment in having/doing neither of those things, THAT is why he has pissed me off so much. Leaving out the question mark is a tiny and irrelevant detail because clearly you think it is a possibility that the 'underlying reason' why he is getting slagged off so much is that he is French. Whether you put in a question mark or not doesn't change that. Perhaps the 'underlying reason' is nothing more sinister than the fact that many, many people think he is s*** and lazy and was the most inept performer against our most passionate rivals. Nobody has taken more s*** over the years at Liverpool than local lads, be it Gerrard in the last two summers, Carragher a few years back, the general unappreciation of Owen, Murphy, back to likes of Sammy Lee, so even raising the question of this being because Cisse is French is not only offensive it is misguided. I'm sure you are a good lad mate but I think you are way, way out of line in what you have suggested there and I for one take exception to it.

If I was wrong to be so intolerant of Kewell (and I'm still not convinced he is totally blameless for his poor 2 years) then fine, but that has f*** all to do with Cisse (about whom I had major doubts before he got injured, based on what I'd seen of him with us and what I'd seen of him at Auxerre - i.e. an alarming lack of basic skills). Stop clutching at straws and trying to make out that Cisse is 'another Kewell', getting unfairly crucified because of injuries. He is getting crucified because he is f***ing s***. There, I've said it. I hate having to say that about one of our players and when he is out on the pitch I would never do anything to undermine but I'm not having people telling me that I can't criticise him or that when I do I am onoly doing it because he is either (a) French or (b) somebody who's crap performances are down to a lack of fitness.

What a load of sanctimonious crap. The fact he was on crutches this time last year has nothing to do with it. The fact he is French has even less to do with it and to be honest it is an insult to anyone who has posted criticism of Cisse that you would even suggest it does. And as for taking pleasure in slagging him off..this is called 'getting things off your chest'. There is a difference. I don't feel the need to vent such frustration at the Spaniards in the team, the Finn, the Irishman, the English fellas, the Norwegian, the Malians or, incidentally, the other French player in the squad (though I have at times had my patience tested by the Aussie). That has nothing to do with their nationalities and everything to with the fact that they ALL both (a) possess at last rudimentary football skills and (b) put in a level of effort that I feel to be sufficient. Neither of those things are true of Cisse. 'Because he's French' my a***.

I was astonished that he was playing, so were all of the people I was watching it with. One of them missed the teams being put up and just saw the list of subs. When Cisse wasn't there, his imediate reaction was that he hadn't even made the squad until I told him he was playing. His inclusion speaks volumes about the lack of quality striking options we have. I don't doubt that Rafa had a plan for the game, but it backfired big time - due in no small part to the complete and utter ineptitiude of Cisse. He is closer to the playing level of Meijer and Sean Dundee than he is to Owen, Fowler or even Heskey. There were never any doubts that the first two players I mentioned there were s****, they should be no doubts about Cisse either.

Surely, in the light of some our buys in the last 5 years and given our seemingly less than flush cash situation, that is exactly what we should fear. I get the impression that yes, Rafa does have very clear ideas about which players he wants and I do believe he wanted Walcott. I also believe he has 'Plan Bs' when those moves don't come off and because of that he isn't going to be bullied or panicked into paying over the odds. I'm happy enough with that. He's shown decisieveness in opting not to pursue the move when the price reached stupid proportions. Maybe Walcott will go on to prove worth every penny, but I think there were excellent reasons why we were right to decide not to be the ones taking that gamble.

Christ on a bike, what the f*** are those stats meant to prove? He'll be saying next that Xabi Alonso just hoofs it - after all, just look at the Luton game, smacking the ball 60 yards up field with no intention of finding a red shirt... Does anyone seriously think we are a 'long ball team' in the 'hit and hope' sense of the term. We have players adept at hitting long passes. There is a difference between that and aimless long balls. I think our football is excellent to watch and when that hasn't been the case over the last few years, I've been ready to say so.

In any thread there will be differences of opinion. You are perectly entitled to think that Kewell is a better player than Garcia and that Rafa rates him more. Others are perfectly entitled to express the view that the praise of Kewell's recent form is, in thier opinion, excessive when it is compared to what they perceive to be a continued lack of appreciation for Garcia in some quarters. That is a valid point to make in this thread - basically using what Garcia has achieved as a benchmark for Kewell, given that the former has undoubtedly made a bigger impact than the latter. It isn't using him as a stick to beat him with, more as a measuring pole - reminding people that there ought to be more to come. I do agree with sammya that some people are finding it hard to give up disliking Kewell because it involves eating humble pie, though I disagree with him that there aren't people who are far more tolerant of Kewell than they are of Garcia (and vice-versa). It is perfectly valid to express on an opinion comparing the praise that Kewell is receiving for his current form with the praise received by others in the squad.

True, others did bring Garcia into it but not by saying he is better than Kewell, simply by saying that they don't understand why some people who rave about Kewell are very critical of Garcia. The basic point was that if people are prepared to be forgiving of the weaknesses in the game of Kewell then they should also be forgiving of the weaknesses in Garcia's game because both are 'flair' players who will occasionaly look world beaters but can also at times be dreadful and require a bit of patience. We all know what Garcia's faults are are and nobody is trying to pretend that they don't exist. That wasn't the point of the comparison with Kewell and the whole 'who does Rafa rate more?' is, whatever you think, a question we can't know the answer to with any certainty (unless you are Rafa). Whatever evidence you out forward for him preferring Kewell can be cancelled out by evidence for preferring Garcia (e.e. the fact that he has bought him 3 times, as I pointed out above). I just think the whole 'who does he rate more?' debate is irrelevant 'cos it is unresolvable. At no point has anyone in this thread said Garcia is better than Kewell, just that they frustrated when people arfe more toerant of Kewell than they are of him. Presumably, their reasons for that are something that IS undeniable - that Garcia has, for whatever reason, made more of an impact at Liverpool than Kewell has been able to. Maybe Kewell is better, maybe Rafa does rate him more, f*** knows. What I do know is that we wouldn't be Champions of Europe without Garcia and for that alone he deserves a level of respect that Kewell has not yet earned.