Puskas

Christ this forum sucks. Even the Genny sucks these days. It used to be worth coming here. Not any more. Adios amigos, I'm off to find pastures new.

This content is not viewable to guests.,This content is not viewable to guests.

I think the idea was to stretch the full backs as wide as possible in order to open up space in the middle. If we had 'wide' midfielders who like to tuck in like Benayoun and Babel then the full backs are more able to stay very narrow with the center backs and completely squash the available space on the edge of the penalty area. This is the space that Torres needs. To an extent the plan worked, Torres found the space to turn and put both Gerrard and Mascherano clean through, and the extra width we used made the space for Finnan to run into and cross for the goal. Having the wingers so wide puts a huge goal scoring burden on Gerrard and Torres though, as they are the only ones in the middle likely to get on the end of something. I don't think you can can class the Gerrard and Mascherano chances when clean through as that difficult. Both should have been scored.

If you combined last season's home form (won 7 drawn 2 lost 1, roughly) with this season's away form we'd currently be third on 44 points, 5 points off the top with a game in hand. Signs that we're getting closer maybe, but we really do need everything to gel at the same time.

If you look at the goals conceded column alone, I would agree. But, looking a bit deeper I think the problem IS at least partly in defence. We have only won 1:0 in the league once this season. We have frequently been 1:0 up in a game and have given up a goal (or two). We were 1:0 up against Arsenal, Chelsea, Wigan and Spurs - all at home - and ended up drawing all 4 matches, which has cost us 8 points (although to be fair we can't blame the defence for the shocking decision that gifted Chelsea a penalty). We managed to find late, late winners against Villa and Derby (both away) where - once again - we had been 1 up and cruising until they scored. Yes, one answer to this is certainly to score a second goal. The other answer is not to concede an equalizer, especially not at home. I think this is where Agger may have been missed. We've been defending well, but not quite well enough.

Absolute complete and utter b******s. As usual. We got Masch, Gerrard and Torres all clean through behind their defence - which was a pretty nifty trick given that it was precisely three yards in front of Kirkland most of the game. Finnan created the goal by running beyond the defence. Alonso was clearly playing ahead of Mascherano most of the time. We did have width in Pennant and Kewell, with Finnan and Aurelio both overlapping. There was plenty of pass and move. The defence was playing the ball out to feet most of the time - in fact in the last ten minutes there wasn't enough 'hoofing'. Your only valid point. If you're looking for reasons as to why we failed to win the match, then look no further than Mr. Gerrard. Although he was involved in the build up to the goal, he spent most of the match way too deep (in a free role...) and missed a couple of glaring opportunities - while handing a goal to Bramble on a plate. That 'clearance' was shocking. Without that we would have won the game 1:0.

This content is not viewable to guests.,This content is not viewable to guests.

This content is not viewable to guests.,This content is not viewable to guests.

This content is not viewable to guests.,This content is not viewable to guests.

Goran Pandev has said he would like to play for us, according to Setanta. He might be worth a look, he plays as a withdrawn striker yet gets his fair share of goals (38 in 85 appearances for Lazio, apparently). He's only 24 as well.

This content is not viewable to guests.,This content is not viewable to guests.

This content is not viewable to guests.,This content is not viewable to guests.

This content is not viewable to guests.,This content is not viewable to guests.

This content is not viewable to guests.,This content is not viewable to guests.

This content is not viewable to guests.,This content is not viewable to guests.

Maybe he's into voodoo.

OK, I'll accept that point - an upgrade when fit. They are both fit at the same time at the moment - what are the odds on that?

Way too much nonsense in the original post. Ignoring the fact that we only get these 'big wayne specials' after we've lost, let's have a look at something interesting. Let's compare the first and second elevens back in Rafa's first season to the same today, in a 442 formation. First 11 back then: Dudek Finnan Carragher Hyypia Riise Gerrard Hamann Alonso Kewell Cisse Baros First 11 now (arguably): Reina Arbeloa Carragher Agger Aurelio Gerrard Mascherano Alonso Kewell Torres Kuyt Reina, Aurelio, Agger and Torres are obvious upgrades, I would argue the same for Mascherano (although I always rated Hamann too). Arbeloa and Finnan are on a par, and it's hard to see a massive difference between Baros and Kuyt, both of whom are hard workers without much end result. Second 11 back then: Kirkland Josemi Henchoz Traore Warnock Garcia Diao Biscan Smicer Le Tallec, Sinama Pongolle Other squad players: Cheyrou, ? and some youngsters Second 11 now: Itandje Finnan Hyypia Hobbs Riise Pennant Sissoko Leiva Benayoun Babel Crouch Other squad players: Voronin, some youngsters Of the 'then' second 11, for me only Garcia (a Rafa buy) would be an obvious candidate to get into our 'now' second 11, plus maybe Henchoz as fourth choice center back (although he was past his best even back then). The 'now' second 11 also includes more players who can start on the bench and come on and change a game, the likes of Benayoun, Babel, Crouch, Pennant and Leiva. I still don't think our squad is as strong as Chelsea's or Man U's, but it's a vast improvement on where we were when Rafa took over. We're still another top class striker (or two) short, and another top class wide player (or two) plus a third choice center back wouldn't go amiss either. Our first 11 is a bit better than it was and our second 11 is much better than it was three seasons ago. Our bench options are also much better as well.

I thought we played pretty well until the 'Lampard special', followed less than a couple of minutes later by Crouch's brain fart (great timing, just after we'd gone behind). It was always going to be difficult to get back into it after that. I think Babel was pulled off because we're going to be one striker down for three games in quick succession over Christmas. Itandje did well, and it's really good to have Xabi back. Some of the passing and interplay between him, Lucas and (yes) Voronin in the first half was very good. As a few mentioned, Lucas faded pretty badly again after a bright first half - I think he was already knackered after 60 minutes, Crouch getting sent off didn't help. I thought Voronin did OK in the first half, but had a bit of a 'mare in the second. Hobbs looked like a 19 year old center back - still pretty raw but he has potential I think. Got caught in possession once and got himself out of position a few times - I think it will have been a great learning experience for him. Nice that Hyppia, Gerrard, Torres, Mascherano, Reina and Kuyt all got a rest. Add back into the mix Agger, Finnan, Riise and Pennant - that's ten players who didn't get on the pitch today, and 8 who didn't even travel.

I don't remember a specific figure being mentioned. You may be right. All I remember is 'high seventies' and that anything over 60K would need some travel infrastructure sorting out first. I guess that will still be a consideration with the 'new new new' (3N) design as well, I assume that will have to start at '60K with potential' as well. 70K should be more than enough for us to be competitive, assuming that's what we end up with.

It's just as well this monitor doesn't actually belong to me! Precisely.

The plan was for 60K with the potential to expand (hopefully before completion) IIRC.

Exactly what I was saying yesterday. Quote from the icliverpool article: "* Pressing ahead with the latest plans would have left no cash for new players." I mentioned something along these lines this morning. While it's possible that we might remain competitive without buying any more players before 2010, it does seem a little unlikely. All those kids in the academy would need to grow up very fast indeed! The owners seem to me to be doing the sensible thing. Yes, it's embarrassing that they've had to shelve the star trek stadium, but it's better than paying over the odds for a stadium with bells and whistles that we don't actually need.

Torres makes most strikers in the league look weak in comparison. Including our other three strikers. We need another striker of Torres' quality, and preferably one who is happier playing as a 7 than a 9 - although who that might be I have no idea. Or we need to switch to 4231, with Gerrard pushed up behind Torres along with two of Babel/Kewell/Benayoun.

The new owners bought us Fernando Torres. That's bought them a very large amount of leeway in my book. Let's say 'nine lives' worth, of which they have used up two (one for the public argument with Rafa, one for the stadium rethink). That still leaves seven. I came up with an even more relentlessly positive idea last night (gasp!). The next bit is wild speculation (the disclaimer is for those who can't spot the difference between wild speculation and reality). Maybe the stadium cut-backs are essentially because of Rafa, who has convinced the owners that we are very close indeed to winning the league title and has insisted that more money be made available for transfers... and that money will come out of the stadium 'pot' of cash. We get a slightly less fancy stadium, but better players in the meantime. Obviously we aren't broadcasting this fact, because we don't want other clubs to rack up the prices of their players. Probably complete bulls***, but I feel better just having imagined it