superledger

In fairness, the squad Rafa inherited first time around was dodgy also. Say what you like about the man but he raised expectations, performances and the overall profile of the club. It's been a hell of a long time since a Liverpool manager achieved this - either before or after Rafa.

Indeed. Whilst I fully support the 'Don't buy the S*n', I'd be an advocate of all Liverpool fans extending it to 'boycott the press'. Liverpool fans have NOTHING to gain from the press.

I'm gonna lol at the Sam comment. However, why do people keep quoting moneyball, sabremetrics etc as if we have somehow implemented such a model? Our transfers have been nothing but overpayment for the undertalented. Even if Downing or Carroll proved to be sensations, we could never EVER get our money back. Isn't one of the criterion of MOneyball to sell them on at 28/29 years old for more than you paid and start the cycle again? If rafa had signed the foreigners he wanted, rather than what we could afford, things would have been much different in Merseyland. Rafa had a few f*** ups for sure, but he also had the best team we've had in decades. Regarding Nunez et al, I was more concerned with their ability than their nationality.

Have they spent that much at all, taking player sales and wage trimming into account?

If we'd had Downing instead of Riera in the midfield with Alonso, Mascherano and Kuyt, it may have well worked out brilliantly. Unfortunately, he's not gonna work in an SPL standard midfield of Adam, Spearing and Henderson.

It doesn't help when you have a media who jump on every little thing. Nothing is a level playing field in football now - wages, budgets, the FA, referees, the media etc.

That's certainly a large part of it.

I don't think Kenny's status at the club is up for question. It does make you wonder if an exit strategy is needed though as, whilst he'll always be a legend to us, Sky et all will jump all over it.

Hmmmm.... 1. Weren't we celebrating 'Internet Warriors' not too long ago? 2. I have explained my reasoning fully and with respect whereas you have charged in swearing and without debate. 3. Everyone at the club needs to catch themselves on. We've been having next season fantasies since 1991.

Just realised there was a Kenny thread so apologies. I should have posted there indeed. Maybe the mods can dispose of this one please?

We seem to have a mentality that's really bad and I'd be afraid that potentially decent players coming into that mentality would be negatively infected by it. Also, the track record of purchases so far is far from impressive. Whether that was the manager or DC may remain secret forever. From what I know and have read, Kenny is a brave, gutsy man. I think he'll know himself and will admit if he thinks that someone else can do a better job. Personally, I think he knows he's not the one right now but is selflessly motoring on until the end of the season in order not to make things worse.

I don't necessarily mean today but remember it's virtually April lads. This isn't a knee jerk reaction at the start of the season. And stop making it about Kenny mate. Start viewing it as a role that needs performed with excellence. As I said, maybe we need to stop thinking with our nuts.

As much as it pains me to write this, I now feel that the manager has to go. I choose the term 'the manager' deliberately as I am trying to remove myself from it being the legendary Dalglish. I understand that this post will come under serious attack but remember that it is merely my opinions and you are entitled to disagree. I pretty much feel that defending Dalglish because he is Dalglish is the equivalent of choosing a trophy girlfriend. Great indeed for a quick fling or bragging rights but maybe not the kind of girl it's best to spend the rest of your life with. The fact is, results are dire, mentality is dire, decision making is dire and the constant talk of 'progress' is either the talk of lunacy or an attempt at morale building that clearly doesn't work. I'm trying not to get into talk about Dalglish as a person though. In my view, we need to view the manager's position as a uniform and stop thinking with our balls and making it so personal. Besides, anyone who thinks King Kenny loses his legendary status if he has to step aside, clearly cant remember enough about the great man. We can talk all we want about being in transition but, on evidence, I really hate what I see us in transition to. We can also talk about new players in the summer but I think that even two world class players in the summer would end up stifled by the negative mentality at the club. We are better on paper already than most of the teams who are shafting us. We should be able to be able to beat them but it seems as if it's something much deeper rooted than mere tactics (which are dubious also) that is defeating us. Attack all you like, I understand. To me though, Dalglish will always be a legend but I'm trying to think about the long-term good of the club.

Why we didnt shoot from such a glorious free kick position, I'll never know. Confidence maybe?

Brilliant from Carroll there. Unlucky Suarez.

This is all about mentality lads. You could bring three world class players in this summer and they'd be depressed into impotence also.

What with winning balls, holing it up, distributing it and his general effort level, Carroll has often looked like a rare rose among the weeds. Our less than intelligent fans will continue to blame him - despite him being served by a Championship Standard (at best) midfield. Truth is, nobody can honesty evaluate Carroll's potential ability or impact as yet.

There's an absence of players willing to take responsibility throughout the team. Not just at the back. You are right though, it is an issue.

I'm not having a go at you personally mate but I feel that this 'top four' mentality is doing the club more harm than good. Many times over the past few decades, United haven't been that much better than us on paper. The difference at that club, as much as it pains me, it that, EVERY YEAR, they view themselves as champions elect rather than 'capable of a top four finish'. Self-fulfilling prophecies and all that jazz. The Champions League (which you don;t even have to be champions to win) has a lot to answer for. When there were only 2 places, was it OK to finish 4th?? Likewise, if they give England 6 places, does finishing 6th suddenly become an achievement? We are Liverpool and we have to believe that we are entitles to that league title. Until we do that, I believe that we'll be also rans in the absence of the required winning mentality. In any other job, if our manager told us we had to produce/sell 4 items per hour, we'd regulate ourselves to doing that. Whereas, if the manager expected six items per hour, we'd regulate ourselves to achieving that too. This is as much about expectations and mentality as it is about tactics.

At least Rafa had the excuse of having to battle a regime. Our current manager and squad have it easy by comparison. And it means everything actually.

Spot on sir. It seems that fans, manager, players and powers that be at LFC, have all severely lowered their expectations. Rafa was indeed hounded out - and he couldnt even really concentrate on the football as he was too busy having to play politics. Rafa made some crazy decisions in his time for sure, but there's no doubting he raised our hopes, expectations and standards. This is like being under Houllier or Souness again. But hey, we'll have to accept 7th place as 'progress' because of this mental rule of not being allowed to criticise our club when certain managers are in charge.

Many have. But how do you counterbalance sustained media conditioning of 'truth'. Like I mentioned above, McDonald's spend over 1 billion a year to convince us that they sell food.

lol, pretty much all of it. The lighting, photography, the motive, the ability to do in the 60's was later, more advanced technology couldn't. The fact that there is no evidence (other than some seriously dodgy images) to say it did happen whereas there is countless lighting, photography and scientific evidence to prove it didn't happen. It was a dick showing contest with the Russians and they didn't know then how good photography and photographic manipulation would be in the future. But hey ho, people will still believe it without question because it was 'on the news'. Hence me referencing it in relation to this thread.

Maybe spend some time reading about the moon 'landings' instead of believing what you are told to believe in the media. You'll soon know what I was getting at.

Your point being?