Shanklyanfield

Why when we went down to 10 men did arsenal have the better chances, yet tonight we go down to 10 men and never ever look like scoring, rafa played for pens as soon as lucas got sent off. Totally and utterly f***ing gutted, can't understand this "it's only the FA Cup, we've got bigger fish to fry etc..." we just got knocked out of the FA Cup by f***ing everton!!

Keane was slowly (very slowly) starting to show a bit of form and score goals, not near his best for spurs but improving - scored 1 against arsenal, 2 against bolton and is then dropped for the next game against newcastle (which we did win), starts against preston, dropped again against stoke, starts at everton then disappears again. Personally I think rafa had decided prior to the newcastle game that keane was gone. Why else drop a player who has struggled for goals and form, then scores 3 in 2 games??

The thing I can't get about this whole episode is that we've sold him for £12 million after 6 months on the last day of the transfer window and not got anybody in to replace him. If spurs had given us £18 million I could understand it but they give us £12 million (a potential cost of £8 million for 6 months), if we'd have kept hold of him until the summer we would have still got £10 million easily. How is it that other clubs are able to get good prices yet we give our players away, i.e. spurs got us to pay £20 million for keane in the first place, portsmouth nearly double their money selling defoe back to spurs yet we nearly loose half the money on keane! Keane hasn't been great but players don't always settle straight away and with us having the best chance of winning the title in over 6 years, we go and sell our only other recognised striker. Ngog hasn't shown anything yet that would make me say he can step up in the title run-in. Rafa hardly ever uses babel as a striker and his form this season has been far worse than Keane's and for all kuyt's hard work he is never going to get you the goals needed as a striker. So up-front for the rest of the season we will have torres and gerrard (a world-class midfielder) playing up-front, exactly how we where last year when rafa decided it wasn't enough and he spent £20 million on keane to address the problem and giving the player 6 months to prove himself isn't long enough especially when you are going to possibly loose £8million in the process. I just really hope that this daft decision doesn't come back to haunt us, especially as our last game of the season is against spurs and you can just imagine the rest....

Can't believe we've only got 1 striker as a sub in a game we have to win! after Ngog's impressive pre-season form he should be there, even voronin or pachecho ahead of 1 of the defenders or defensive midfielders. COME ON RED MEN!!!!

I know it has probably been done before but I was having a discussion with a lad in work about the amount the top 4 managers have spent over the last 4 years and I was going to try and get all the info and compare the spendings against money brought in. I can get all the liverpool info off Liverweb but I am struggling to find the info for the other clubs (season by season). Does anyone know of any good websites that I can get this info from? Cheers

New signings Robbie Keane and David Ngog have been handed starting roles in the Liverpool team for this evening's friendly against Villarreal. The game has been arranged as part of the deal which took Pepe Reina to Anfield three years ago, but the Reds goalkeeper starts on the bench having rejoined the squad following the birth of his second child. Reina is joined among the substitutes by fellow Euro 2008 winners Fernando Torres, Xabi Alonso and Alvaro Arbeloa. The Liverpool team in full for tonight's game (kick off 8.30pm) is: Diego Cavalieri Andrea Dossena Sami Hyypia Martin Skrtel Stephen Darby Damien Plessis Yossi Benayoun Steven Gerrard Andriy Voronin Robbie Keane David Ngog Subs: Steve Finnan Daniel Agger Fernando Torres Xabi Alonso Jermaine Pennant Alvaro Arbeloa Dirk Kuyt Daniel Pacheco Krisztian Nemeth Jay Spearing Emiliano Insua Jamie Carragher Pepe Reina

Absolutely delighted we have singed Keane and as Leo has said would have loved him to come to the club when he left coventry, then inter, then leeds but finally we've got a great player. I can't understand how some people can say his price is inflated when you consider his goalscoring record for Spurs - name me another striker you could get for £19M with his record in any league let alone the prem. There is no need to worry if he'll settle into the prem etc.... When you consider united paid Spurs £18M for carrick - Keane is an absolute bargain at £19M. I can't wait to see him in a Red shirt and just hope he plays up-front with Torres and not on the left or right! :woohoo:

O'Neil is really starting to p**s me off, I'm so glad the rumours of him coming here never materialsed. He goes on about us unsettling barry etc... yet the first we all heard anything official is when he spoke about the transfer deal. He then says that Villa are desperate to keep Barry and doing everything in their power etc... but as Barry said he had time to be a pundit on the Beeb for Euro2008 but hadn't spoken to him in 6 weeks and he really was a s**t pundit ("well I was going to say this before the game and now I've been proven right") we can all say s**t like that! Then he is the one that is constantly bleeting about the transfer or lack-of in the press all the time, yet keeps stating that we are unsettling Barry. Even though I think the price of Barry is inflated, I hope he signs for us as much to p**s him off as much as it should make us a better side!

I'd be very dissapointed if we only got the reported £1.5m - £2m for Guthrie, why is we seem to undervalue our players who have come through the youth system? Bolton paid Birmingham (a relegated side - probably in need of money) £5m for Fabrice Muamba, both he and Guthrie have played for the England U-21's and played a full season in the prem last year with Guthrie one of Bolton's best players last year (from the bolton st holders I know), yet Birmingham somehow get get £3m - £3.5m more for their player

If you count Barry for £17m, Bent for £18m, Hargreaves and Carrick for £18m, Crouch for £11m with one year left on his contract then Keane at £20m is a bargain! His record at spurs of 107 goals in 253 games - a better average than 1 goal every 2.5 games and 33 goals in 80 games at international level is pretty impressive as well! If he wasn't playing in the prem and was a "fancied player" with stats like that most people would be screaming to sign him. David Villa has scored 148 goals in 307 games only a slightly better average than keane and villa plays as the main stiker where keane plays as the second striker. Keane has the added bonus of you know he can play in the prem and play at a very high level, Villa is priced at £30m - £10m more than keane and like schevchenko (who is a superbly gifted footballer) could totally flop in the prem - at least with keane you haven't got that gamble and he's £10m cheaper! I'm not saying that Villa wouldn't be a great success in the prem but Keane's record is comparible with his, he's £10m cheaper and we (Rafa) know that he can cut it in the Prem! I've like keane ever since his early days at coventry and would love to sign him and I think he would be brilliant sitting behind torres, most of berbatov's goals of the past 2 years have been because of keane's work behind him!

You'll be p****d after the first 10 mins and luckily for you won't be able to see most of the 2nd half!! Great attacking change at half-time finnan on for aurelio - that's going to change things going forward!! Why do we need masch on against sunderland at home - yes he's done well tracking back and tackling but he offers nothing going forward- 9 out of 10 of his passes are backwards or sidewards!

good points and I agree with most of it but...... it's Rafa's management style, what he believes in and reading the few books about rafa I don't think he will change. so the big question for me is: will we win the title with the constant changing of players, formations and tactics and my own personal opinion is that we won't.

Let's hope he has more luck with injuries this time around - it's just a shame we didn't see more of jari as he was great when he did play! Jari back in Prem Fulham have secured the services of Finnish legend Jari Litmanen for the remainder of the season. Litmanen had been training with The Cottagers in a bid to win a deal and clearly did enough for manager Roy Hodgson. The 36-year-old brings a wealth of experience to Craven Cottage having played for Ajax, Barcelona and Liverpool during his lengthy career. "I don't think there is a need to explain the qualities that Jari possesses as a player or the obvious reasons for wanting to bring him to Fulham, and I am delighted that he has agreed to join us for the remaining months of the season," he told the club's official website. Skill and experience "Although he is not entirely match fit at the moment, I have no doubt that he will have a big part to play over the coming months and that we shall benefit as a team from his skill and experience." Litmanen is not the only addition on transfer deadline day as Finland international defender Toni Kallio has also signed for The Cottagers. Kallio, who joins from Swiss outfit BSC Young Boys, has been capped 15 times by his country and can operate at left-back and centre half.

So how do you explain in 2005/2006 season we finished 1 point behind united. The next season united bought 1 big name signing in carrick and won the league finishing 21 points above us. It just proves that you don't have to sign 11 players all worth £25m each to win / improve you position in the league! Everton, Villa and Man City over the past 4 years have spent nowhere near as much as we have yet they are all above us in the league, once again proving that money doesn't always buy you success. Blackburn and portsmouth are only 2 and 3 points behind us but haven't spent anywhere near what we have spent!

So you are giving rafa credit for winning the european cup (rightly so) with a team that had finished 4th and 5th in the previous 2 seasons and won 6 trophies over the previous 4 season. Yet wenger done nothing really and just had an underachieving but great squad that had finished 4th and 12th in the previous 2 seasons and hadn't won anything for 4 years! I'll ask you one question - are we any closer to winning the league now than we where 4 years ago? Have we made any progress in the league?

see my quote from above: Such a great team that they hadn't won anything for 4 years before wenger took over! The previous 4 years in the league they had finished 5th, 12th, 4th and 10th. The team rafa took over had won 2 league cups, 1 fa cup, 1 uefa cup, 1 super cup and a charity shield. Had finshed 4th, 5th, 2nd and 3rd in the league - so I'd say that wenger had a bigger job on his hands at the time! Rafa won the european cup and got to a league cup final with that squad with a couple of additions so it can't have been that bad a squad can it!!! To say wenger just walked in to a great team made a little tweak here and there is completely b******s!! One of the major things wenger changed apart from the drinking culture etc... was the style of football that they played. don't you remember the old "hoof" chants at arsenal in the early to mid nineties and the constant 1-0 to the arsenal because they played such poor, boring football!

Such a great team that they hadn't won anything for 4 years before wenger took over! The previous 4 years in the league they had finished 5th, 12th, 4th and 10th. The team rafa took over had won 2 league cups, 1 fa cup, 1 uefa cup, 1 super cup and a charity shield. Had finshed 4th, 5th, 2nd and 3rd in the league - so I'd say that wenger had a bigger job on his hands at the time! liverpool squad rafa took over: 1, Jerzy Dudek 2, Stephane Henchoz 3, Steve Finnan 4, Sami Hyypia 5, Milan Baros 6, John Arne Riise 7, Harry Kewell 8, Steven Gerrard 9, Djibril Cisse 10, Michael Owen 11, Vladimir Smicer 15, Salif Diao 16, Dietmar Hamann 17, Josemi 19, El Hadji Diouf 21, Djimi Traore 22, Chris Kirkland 23, Jamie Carragher 24, Florent Sinama Pongolle 25, Igor Biscan 26, Richie Partridge 28, Stephen Warnock 29, Patrice Luzi 32, John Welsh 33, Neil Mellor 34, Darren Potter 36, Jon Otsemobor 37, Zak Whitbread 40, Paul Harrison

the two previous seasons before wenger took over they had finished in 11th and 5th not exactly a great team. we had a good back 5 when rafa came in and most of them are still our back 5 today. finnan, carra, riise and it's only recently that agger has ousted sami (who's been our best defender this season). rafa had one of the best midfielders in the world in gerrard. who are our best 3 players and the spine of the club? carra, gerrard and torres 2 of them where already here when rafa arrived. Wenger won the league within 2 years of taking over arsenal and the fact that they have consistanly challenged for it over the past 10 years (wiining it 3 times and runners up 5) means that the fans probably believe he would get it right in the league again since he's done it before. I'm not totally pro-wenger but he has proven that you don't need to spend £25-£30 million on every player to win the league. Can you honestly say that we are any closer to winning the league under rafa (4 years on at the end of his season) than when he came to the club? I don't think we are and as I've explained previously I don't think rafa's management style and beliefs are suited to the prem, europe - yes, cup runs - yes, premiership - no!

but he has also finished runners up 5 times and ever since he won his first title in '98 (2 years after arriving) they have constantly challenged. for the last 10-15 the closest we have ever got to making a challenge was when we finished 2nd under houllier and the team wenger took over was in a worse condition than the team that rafa took over. Let's not forget the 4 fa cups he has won as well. The major concern for me is the style of football that we play hasn't improved in the last 3.5 years even though we have now got a better squad of players than when rafa arrived and that can only be down to the manager. We are no closer to challenging for the league now than when rafa arrived. Rafa will always be remembered and rightly so for istanbul and also getting to the final last year but I think that is the problem, rafa's management style and beliefs are suited to europe and cup runs, not to the premiership, which I think ultimately will be his downfall.

What is arsenal's record signing for a defender? What is arsenal's record signing for a midfielder? What is arsenal's record signing for a striker? It's ok comparing the money spent by chelsea and united but let's also compare to arsenal who's style of football is years ahead of ours, mostly with players who we'd never heard of before the came to arsenal.

You don't need to spend £20-£25 million on 1 player though, they are out there if you look and spending big money doesn't always work look at schevchenko for £30m. How much did cahill cost? £2m-£3m and scores alot of important and match winning goals for everton Adebayour cost £5m and is the 2nd highest goalscorer in the prem. how much did fabregas cost? henry cost arsenal the same as diouf cost us! Rafa hasn't had much sucess when you look at the forwards he's brought to the club and what they cost. Torres has been a success and to an extent crouch but rafa won't use him!

Well what about bringing on arbeloa and not bellamy when we are losing in a one-off game!! I personally don't think rafa will ever win the prem, unless he get's £500 million and then he can have 22 players of gerrard and torres's calibre to be rotated. Give rafa £50 million and instead of buying 2 world class players for £25m each he will buy 5 decent players at £10m each so he can have a big squad and keep with his style of football and rotation. Everybody keeps going on about the lack of money rafa has had etc.... compared to united and chelsea but don't forget united made 1 signing last season (carrick) and they won the league. I would imagine Wenger's net spend is less than rafa's in the time they have both been in english football together and certainly less this summer, yet they sold henry (one of the best players in the world) and their football is light years ahead of ours! I have seen no progression in the style of football we play under rafa - infact we are probably one of the most boring teams to watch in the prem, when was the last time you where constantly on the edge of your seat watching liverpool create chance after chance and not just shots from 20 yards. The reason I don't think rafa will ever win the league is that he doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes in the prem and after 3.5 years he still hasn't got to grips with it. The weird thing is that I wouldn't be suprised if we got the CL final again but I also wouldn't be suprised if we lost at home to sunderland on sat!

After this latest inept performance from us - Rafa has seriously got to take a long hard look at himself, his tactics, his rotation and especially tonight his personally vendetta getting in the way of the team by leaving crouch on the bench! This is not good enough for LFC and rafa has to take most of the blame for the recent results. The coincidence with gh's last season in charge is frightening!

torres with a poor pass in the box - he has been poor today, the service hasn't been great but torres's touch and control has been poor. Why isn't crouch on yet - rafa - swallow your pride / grudge or whatever it is against crouch and get him on NOW!

handball on the line by lucas neil who moved his arm towards the ball! once again whiley hasn't got a clue and doesn't give the pen!