Fagan

no need to discuss in here while other thread is going along. unless we can amalgamate the 2?

absolutely mate, thats why i dont think people should be referring to Hillsborough, the chant is clearly not related and bringing it up only clouds the issues and the issue gets uneccessarily emotive.

i dont think this thread has anything to do with hillsborough so can we stop referring to it in this context.

hang ona second, i thought this was nothing to do with hillsborough? i dont think it can even be perceived as being related to hillsborough. I am totally opposed to the chant yet i see no relevance of it to hillsborough. my main reasons for objecting is that i think its distasteful and unneccessary and offensive to victims of heysel. but nothing to do with hillsborough. so i dont see your point is what im saying

because its f**king obvious they would not understand. jeeesus! if the juve fans started doing the same thing about our fans dying in Heysel we would be f**king livid. FACT i dont think its even up for debate that families affected by heysel would even consider it appropriate or at best understand why some of us are singing it

thats the thing, we all get that the intention and motive behind singing the song is nothing to do with Heysel from the point of view of those who advocate singing this chant. however, it remains a fact and an undeniable one at that, that the perception from a substantial part of our own fans is that it can not be divorced from Heysel. If most of us perceive that, you can bet your life on it that non-liverpool supporters and in particular italian families affected by Heysel and the media will find it inconceivable that there is no perceived reference to Heysel. for that very reason alone I think people should stop singing the chant, look beyond themselves and beyond what they think they are singing about and recognise the obvious perception of what the song is about. I don't see how singing the chant is gaining anything, it doesn;t mean we reclaim the murderers jibe, other teams will never stop singing that, and if anyone really thinks opposng fans when they hear us chant '2-0 to the murderers' are going to turn around to each other and say 'hats off to the scousers, they've got us there, we must find another way of abusing them now' then sorry lads but its not gonna happen

utter nonsense. standing up for yourself is singing that? why do we have to stand up for ourselves all of a sudden? we get abuse from fans all the time,just like we give it. you'd swear we were the only ones. just cheer on your f**king team and give the other fans stick when you want but all this nonsense of making a stand is ridiculous. we are Liverpool FC supporters, supporters of a football club and all it stands for, and if supporting liverpool means singing that sh*te about myself and fellow supporters then its a sorry f**king day

Having read each and every post on this thread I have come to the conclusion that Kay's artcle is totally unbalancd and unfair to magnify his criticism on us after years of taking abuse, however, notwithstanding that, for fellow fans to be referring to all of us as murderers is totally wrong. I understand the mindset behind it, but it is not justification. its just a really thick thing to do, its totally counterproductive and its offensive to those of us who don;t want t be referred to as murderers by other fans let alone our own even if it is done in irony and in order to shut opposiing fans up. its fundamentally wrong from first principles of basic common sense, decency and humanity. and yes think it is that serious. I may be hammered by some on here who think perhaps im not entitled to crticise as i'm not a STH or can get to every game, but thats a weak defence, all it says it that you think im not entitled to be right, even if i am

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=nFnLpXzkw4Y

the oddest thing is that it s one of the shortest articles hes ever written, it looks lke it took about 3 minutes to write. he could have done a double page spread on this topic and yet didnt. In those circumstances you have to questin his motives, journalists are supposed to seek out the truth, he clearly hasnt here and he must know it.

has anyone written to him i wonder, it does seem totally unbalanced and out of context. although i am slightly uncomfortable at the thought of singing that myself, but i understand fully the thought process behind it

apoligies if this is elsewhere, i looked and didnt find it. is it true our fans were shouting '2-0 to the murders' as is reported below? Link Before kick-off at Goodison Park on Saturday, officials from Everton and Liverpool gathered on the pitch to release 200 purple balloons under a banner that said: “Liverpool Unites”. As most of the balloons stayed in their sack, you wondered whether someone was trying to tell the local newspaper that their campaign to unite red and blue might struggle to get off the ground. There has been a certain amount of revisionism on Merseyside in recent years about the “myth” of the friendly derby. According to some, the convivial Everton-Liverpool Cup Finals of the 1980s caught them at a moment of weakness and, had it not been that the city was being downtrodden by the government, the two sets of fans would not have stood side by side at Wembley chanting “Merseyside, Merseyside” and “Are you watching, Manchester?” However superficial that sense of Scouse solidarity may or may not have been at the time, that historical context is inevitable when charting the deterioration of a rivalry that has reached the gutter. On Saturday we had all the usual bile (the chilling “Murderers” chants, the gestures to signify the deaths at Heysel and Hillsborough, the distasteful abuse of Joleon Lescott and of Steven Gerrard’s family) and then, most depressingly of all, the new and hopefully short-lived phenomenon of Liverpool supporters chanting “2-0 to the murderers”. Jamie Carragher, born an Evertonian, but now the quintessential Liverpudlian, uses his experience on both sides of the divide to make some searing observations on the rivalry in his autobiography. He uses words such as “sinister”, “vile” and “inexcusable”. Heaven only knows what Carragher made of the moment on Saturday when Liverpool supporters stooped lower than a snake’s belly with their own take on the “Murderers” chant. According to some in the away end, it was a post-ironic take on Everton supporters’ perceived obsession with Heysel and its supposed repercussions for their club as they went into decline shortly after English clubs were banned from European competition. Whatever, it sounded truly awful. There is no humour any more. Where once there was respect and gentle mickey-taking (“He’s fat, he’s s***, he’ s never f***ing fit, Peter Reid”), now there are personal attacks on men such as Gerrard based not on humour but on vicious and unfounded rumour. One less offensive rumour is that the Liverpool captain had a vest declaring “I’m the daddy” to show off in case he scored his 100th goal for the club on Saturday. That would have shut them up, but not, you suspect, for long.

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you cant sell your private life to a magasine like OK or Hello and then demand privacy from the hacks who can get it for free. you never see your jamie carraghers or roy keane's of this world whoring their private lives out to the press and in retrn they never get their private lives, holdays or kids snapped in the papers. i suspect stevie does it for his mrs who probably wants a bit of a profile and to keep up with the other high prfile 'wags'. he also has a bit of an ego himself, but sure who wouldnt if you were captain of the greatest club on the planet!

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