Elm0

Well, yes, actually. From what Ive been reading lately, theres been an unbelievable amount of people crawling out of the woodwork and praising Roy who have either a) been slating him the entire time, or b) kept quiet on things and still refuse to accept his failings. For instance, the argument that the fixture list at the start of the season was unkind - firstly, not true, and we should have plenty more points than we do at the minute. More importantly however, despite hearing that argument on numerous occassions after the Chelsea game, I dont remember hearing it once before that. Now correct me if im wrong, but the "unkind fixture list" is a constant thing yes? So why only bring it out after the team gets a big win? Its picking and choosing facts to suit the argument. Its also quite myopic to assume that everything from herein will be rosy and fantastic. As with anything in life, its a lot harder to shift a negative feeling rather than a postiive on, and rightly so, especially in this case. I certainly wont be letting a performance in 2 games overshadow the fact that Roy has been inept in conferences and on the pitch up to then, criticising players, future players, and other managers in the process. He deserves no praise for the Chelsea win nor the "performance" against Blackburn or Bolton. Two of those are games we should be winning, and the other one, whilst we should still be aiming to win and Im glad we did so, the second half was an abysmal performance typical of a small club. Additionally, Roys team selection was forced upon him by half the squad being injured so im unsure as to how he can take much credit for that.

If thats true then why are you vociferous in your defence of Roy? You've got me all wrong though tbh. I do hate the man. When he arrived I wasnt over enamoured, but i was willing to give him a chance to see if he could change my opinion. However for reasons very much visible to everyone, hes done nothing but dig a large hole for himself, and once you're in the hole with no rope theres no way out. What youve got extremely wrong is my support of the team and my squirming position. I want the team to do well long term, I want them to dominate for 10+ yrs in the way Utd have, and unfortunately the only way I see that is with a young manager with fresh ideas, good media rapport and good tactical knowledge. We wont get that with Roy at all, which is where the problem lies. I want the team to win "long term", and winning a few games this season if it isnt going to cut it for me if it doesnt benefit the team long term. Think even about Torres and Reina - are they more likely to stay if another manager comes in or if Roy stays? I think its more likely theyll stay with a new manager personally, regardless of league finish, because I dont trust Roy long term to progress the club and im sure they dont either. Those two players staying at the club for the next 4-5 years are paramount to the medium term stability we need to start challenging long term, and is one reason Roy needs the boot. Of course, all things considered, and despite my want for Liverpool to win every game, my logical brain tells me a few losses now to taint the mans name and get him out of the club ASAP is rudimentary for the long term success of the club.

Part of the reason for some of the needless over the top bashing of Mister Woy is the equally dull and inane defence of him, in particular that from David Hodgson. Never have I seen such smugness as I have since sunday afternoon, and quite frankly its beyond ludicrous.

Surely some sort of a joke?

Name these clubs please.

I heard it was actually Houllier's team that won the CL too

Your opinions are becoming unbearable. Why does the fact we didnt pick up points against opposition we should have excuse us this time round?

Tried to make this point yesterday, noone else could fathom this.

Seems strange to have two places really. Id be for a merger.

Only 25 points until the magic 40

glad we won, glad we played well first half. not pleased with the second half, not pleased with roy and cant wait to see the back of him. Oh, and we didnt HAVE to play weakened teams in europe. Thats Hodgsons choice. I dont think its anything to be proud of tbh.

Ive said on two occassions it was a good win. Have a read.

Hold on, the fixture list before the win today is still the same fixture list thats there right now you know? I dont know about your personal opinion but Roy was getting slated all over the place regardless of the fixtures. Why the hell should one more win change my opinion? Thats also conveniently glossing over the Blackpool at home loss, and dropping points to Sunderland, and losing to Northampton.You cant sit and tell me its all ok because Roy lost/drew difficult fixtures but not acknoweldge there have been plenty of games he should have won. Not sure what your last points about? Am I supposed to give the team more credit for beating s*** teams??

Difficult set of fixtures that include dropping points to Sunderland and Blackpool at home whilst losing to northampton? Stop talking absolute guff.

Mikel isnt going to harm a team offensively and Zhirkov has barely had a game until recently - face it, Chelsea had Drogba, Lampard and Essien missing, three of their top players. Thats a bit different to us missing Cole - hes been awful thus far, Johnson - whos been so bad at RB there have been lengthy discussions as to whether he should play RW, and Agger - who hasnt had a look in the entire season anyway. I think I acknowledged in my post earlier that I was pleased with the result - the second half was still a shambles, which red tinted glasses you wish to look through.

Well the better the side, the more catious you should be with a 2 goal advantage, yes. Dont know why youre arguing when you accept it as a poor practice

Barcelona in 2007 were a different thing to a depleted Chelsea team today though.

Not really though. I cant see Rafa having gone just as deep as Woy - Rafa would at least have had some counter attacking options on the go. Woys more likely to be an accident that Rafa's too

That makes no sense really, better opposition than Chelsea would surely advocate more of the softly softly approach? Anyway, this was no ordinary game. We bossed them for an entire half, they had their two best midfielders missing, and things were looking fantastic. Second half we come out and sit back in true Woy style. Dont get me wrong here, im not saying a little caution is not prudent, but the extreme lengths to which we sat back and stopped pressing were demoralising given how we'd played first half. Small club mindset.

None.

Have been saying for the past season that this mans problem were the restrictive tactics given to him by Rafa. He will flourish. Not that I advocate jumping to conclusions of course, lets see if he keeps up the form for a few more games before we pull the trumpets out.

Good win, fantastic first half. Second half was an abomination and typical of a small team midset. There was no need to sit back and absorb as much pressure as we did. No f***ing need whatsoever.

Eh? Kyrgiakos injured then?

Haha what a load of utter, utter bulls***. The people that said "Give G&H time" are half the reason we're f***ed? Give it a break mate, you seen at the end of their reign how determined to hang on they were - do you really reckon people getting on their case earlier would have made the slightest bit of difference? Clueless, utterly clueless and reactionary. They need to do the right thing - indeed they do, but that doesnt mean making ridiculous reactionary decisions of their own just because some dribbling moron like yourself cant let go of the past They need to take their time and make the correct decisions, not nessecarily the quickest one.