Epic Swindle

It's time for a change at managerial level and a new approach. It's not in our make up to sack managers and we tear ourselves up about it but we can't keep putting it off in the hope that he'll suddenly change. It's not going to happen, even with new owners.

Agreed. It's not the others dropping points that I'm worried about, it's us.

Bit low that. I doubt the nationality of the manager is an issue for Stevie, who has given everything for Rafa, and Houllier before him, and played in a variety of positions to suit the team. He's played in a central role all season, mostly injured and behind a makeshift lone striker, without any real service. He should have been dropped back into midfield 3 months ago when it was clear that Aqualini wasn't in the managers plans. Redknapp is talking rubbish anyway.

We haven't put a consistent run together all season so it's unlikely we'll start now, especially as we seem to freeze against weaker teams away from home. There's something rotten about this season and the only good thing to come out of it is it's nearly over.

Arsenal - 86 Chelsea - 83 Man Utd - 82 Man City - 69 Liverpool - 68 Tottenham - 65 Aston Villa - 64

He was right in what he said but it was badly timed and the start of a poor run of form. In the same month the mancs won 5 on the trot and closed the gap. We're getting close to Evertonesque bitterness here. We get our fair share of dodgy decisions and most clubs' fans think the officials favour us. They beat us at a canter yesterday despite their being over 3 quarters of the game left.

It's a fair point about the lack of service. He's a top class striker who is increasingly left to fight for scraps with yard dog defenders. But he's still better to us on the pitch and not in the stands due to suspension.

I think he realised in that game at GP that it was getting to him and he calmed down and we benefited. I don't mind him with fire in his belly, we know he's a winner, but he can't let it affect his mood and in turn his game.

He needs the ball first.

I don't. It clearly affects his game. A calm focused Torres would have buried that chance near the end.

I'm struggling to remember a shot on target. I think Stevie had a chance to have a crack but got caught in posession. Benayoun's header just summed up our day.

I wouldn't say they were there for the taking but for a team as good as ours you expect a bit of desire and intent, even if you're playing the champions away from home. We barely created anything of note after the penalty and were content to let the game fizzle out. The ref was rubbish but he can't be blamed for the negative line up and lack of ambtition that has seen us lose so many games this season.

Agreed. It would be nice to win it this season, and I think it should be our main focus now, but I'd rather we didn't have the distraction next season.

Juve lost again. Quite the rebuilding job there next season.

Within 12 months he's gone from being the lynchpin of a team that was going out to win games and challenging for the title, to being past his prime after an injury disrupted, disjointed season. If we're making rash judgments on individuals this season, the lot of them, including Rafa, are past their prime. It's only natural as our captain and best player for so long that he's taking the brunt of the criticism but it strikes me that he's being made a scapegoat for some poor tactics and management.

Well if we're going to sell one of the best proven attacking midfielders in the game in the prime of his career his replacment better be worth it. God help him if he has an indifferent season through injuries and not having any quality service of note.

And buy who?

I don't think Insua is anything special but we should stick with him now, at least as cover. No point tossing these lads aside so soon after giving them a chance. The experience will be good for him and he can only get better.

Just been looking at their games and they've got a hell of a run in, so yeah they will. If they win their next two games, one of which is on the same weekend the mancs play Chelsea, then I might start to believe they can do it.

Got a feeling winning the Europa would save him. Maybe that's the way he's looking at it now with 4th being a long shot. Though I'd be surprised if he's here next season regardless. Madrid might be too good to turn down again if they came calling.

I can think of quite a few who need to go before Stevie. He might be considering his future anyway and who could blame him. We're a club falling apart at the seams, with a manager who is determined to stifle every last drop of creativity in case we actually turn out to be a good team. It might be the best for all concerned. Agreed. This system has only ever worked with a creative player in midfield capable of dictating the game. For all the donkey work Lucas and Masch put in they just don't have it. Watching that game today I was struggling to see just what Lucas offers more than players of the calibre of Gerrard and Aqualini, even defensively.

He was making noises after we demolished Pompey about being more cautious so the change back to the rigid controlling mode was all a bit predictable. It's a bit much to expect him to change after 6 seasons but I still cling on to the hope. I know Babel is not everyone's cup of tea but he's played well in the last few games and worked hard for the team and yet he's left out today in favour of a game plan that suits the manager's favourites. It must be soul destroying.

Said something similar on the match thread. Two world class players completely nulified by their own team. Get bodies around them and they make things happen.

What's even more annoying is the mancs are far worse than the last few seasons. Another title handed to them on a plate.

So we should just ignore all the good things he does and knitpick over a few loose passes? All players give the ball away, ours more than most. What's their excuse?