Rocheteau

I think 4th spot is beyond us this year. City, Arsenal, United and Chelsea have bigger/stronger squads. Newcastle and Spurs are in better shape, more consistent and in better form and goal scoring is not our only problem. But I'm a natural pessimist so you could be right.

Deppressingly there's no quality available in January. Walcott is mentioned, maybe Sturridge but they aren't going to substantially change the season for us even if you think they are half decent. Despite last summer's welcomed clear out there are still 3 senior players if not 4 who need to go and get another club and these need to be replaced with an additional 1 or 2 to come in on top. Its still a huge rebuilding job and the summer is the best time to do it if its to be carried out in a structured way. Panic buying and paying over the top fees in January in the hope of kick starting something mid season is unlikely to be a good long term solution and the summer provides a larger pool of players of better quality at less inflated values in comparison. I believe FSG are sincere that they want us to have Champions League football and there is a compelling commercial and sporting logic to that. They have brought in a bright progressive manager with a remit to play attacking football which suggests that they have some ambition if you believe Tom Werner, but the club needs an injection of £30m plus the summer sales at least to build towards it - thats a first step - then another £30m the season after should we get Champions League qualification. A short term January fix is not what i want to see even if it does mean having to watch Downing aimlessly fanny arseing about for another four months.

After going through the HG era, seen the mess at Blackburn, Leeds and a few others, I'm in no particular rush

I think we are okay, in fact I think we've made a hell of a lot more progress than I'd imagine we would make when Rodgers was first appointed. The results have not reflected the performances, the passing is crisp, the movement has been positive, but the finishing is the big worry. The manager is young intelligent and ambitious and there is a distinct lack of compromise in his attitude which could go either way, but I think he is bullet proof as far as FSG are concerned for at least for a couple of seasons. If the striking concerns and one or two issues in defence can be addressed, there is a platform there for a very bright future.

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Piara Powar said anything yet, No? how odd! Director of Chelsea Foundation and head of the Fare network

Did I misread his post or did he say that FSG have financial problems which i think is a development which none of us where aware of hitherto and puts their ability to manage the group under question - presumably dependant on how difficult those problems are. There was also some talk of them contemplating the sale of the Red Sox which seems to fit within what NYR is suggesting I think his disclosure is worth taking seriously - I understand the vagueness is what some find irritating though

Some people just don't want to face the reality that our police force are capable of such abuse of power or that there can be collusion with politicians and the press as well. The fact is it happens and has been exposed by Levesonl, they'll have trouble with that as well. Ordinary people are not to question the ruling class. Makes the achievement of the grieving families all the more incredible They will continue to blame the fans because they cant face the alternative

the FA knew the ground was a death trap but they didnt care. There was a major incident at the same end with Spurs fans in 1981 I wouldnt expect anything but platitudes from that f***up organisation

I don't want to tread on anyone's toes or be accused of burning sacred cows but from where we are at the moment I'd say this was precisely the reason to give the manager unqualified support. Benitez will never be forgotten but others cannot be expected to live in his shadow

Its a fair point from a logical business orientated standpoint, unfortunately this is football and things are done very differently. I simply don't believe FSG were not aware of this when they bought us so the madness is something they should have been prepared to factor into. Meanwhile we move further and further away from vying for a champions league spot which in turn will affect our future revenue streams and profitability - well, at least thats the concern.

Think he was referring to a loan to newcastle if I remember rightly as in dont take the piss ashley

Paying off 3 departed managers and back up staff probably innit

The one common denominator being that none of the aforementioned were regular starters last season - for one reason or another - people are getting too jumpy Most business is concluded in the run up to the closure of the transfer window - posturing is the name of the game at the moment - as is City's interest in Agger - note no actual bid

ott

You and your mates are frankly embarrassing.

I take it thats sarcasm at least I'm assuming it is because it fits your mo As it happens there have been times this season when we have played some really impressive one touch football which I haven't seen for sometime, games we have utterly dominated like the recent one against QPR. The problem is obvious, its no secret, we have a terrible record of converting the chances we create and now we have a crisis in player confidence. It desperately needs fixing but to infer that we have played negative football is simply untrue I hope we get it right tomorrow I'm not confident but I'll take a 1 - 0 as a start

f***ing hypocracy

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Prove that you f***ing lieing t*** - I gave him 10 games to prove himself before I gave up on him as a manager 2 things 1.Farmer tan's original post was exactly right - I believed that once appointed we should give the manager a chance - he failed, it happens, some opposed him from the very start and probably are very smug about it, big deal I believe you give people a chance until they prove otherwise 2. Hodgson was sacked for failing to perform, he was out of his depth, he failed to motivate the squad or get their universal respect, his tactics were from a bygone age and were even more regimented than his predecessor's he was clearly the wrong man for the job and it was apparent pretty much after the first 10 games. What was unacceptable however, was the scale of personal abuse that was levelled at him including some very questionable sexual references that are frankly unbelievable and continue even now and to which I still find unacceptable as a Liverpool fan and as a human being. There are levels of behaviour in evidence in this forum that at times are completely sickening and if ever aired in public would be ridiculed and shamed if the perpetrators who hide in anonymity were exposed I clearly come from a different age, the internet seems to have encouraged a class of sub human troll who has neither the wit nor guile to express himself, the knowledge of the game to structure a meaningful appreciation of the problems managers have to deal with, or the basic honesty and openess to engage in meaningful discussion We learn from our mistakes and we learn by listening to other views. Some here dont learn, wont learn and will always remain an embarrassing pig ignorant sump of our support The people I'm referring to are basically self evident to the majority of those who view this forum not the small cliques who act as the self appointed guardians of forum lore

Good to hear, I wish him well

No, I dont get it There's no debate from these posters, no counterpoint to the arguement, no honest forthright exchange of views, just f*** off purslow to everything I post You know Im not purslow, they do as well - its just an opportunity to indulge in ignorant bullying and intimidation There is no point to get.....do you get it? I'm not adding anything more Ive made my point, be asinine like the rest if you insist

Yes and it was a brilliant achievement and he deserves the accolade but time does not stand still does it

forum [ˈfɔːrəm] n pl -rums, -ra [-rə]1. a meeting or assembly for the open discussion of subjects of public interest 2. a medium for open discussion, such as a magazine 3. a public meeting place for open discussion / puerile abuse 4. a court; tribunal5. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) (in South Africa) a pressure group of leaders or representatives, esp Black leaders or representatives6. (Historical Terms) (in ancient Italy) an open space, usually rectangular in shape, serving as a city's marketplace and centre of public business[from Latin: public place; related to Latin foris outside] But tell you what, lets instead let those who want open discussion be ritually abused by a group of juvenile knuckle draggers who regularly throw their collective dummies out at anyone who says anything they disagree with so they dont post again Because thats what it boils down to

Benitez had his faults, I find the idolatry of the man on this forum somewhat over the top - excessively so at times. There is a tendency to look back at him as the messiah when that is really a grotesque exagerration. The main problem I had with his managership was the sheer degree of control he exerted on all matters off and on the pitch. The off pitch stuff was understandable given the well documented problems with senior management, but his on pitch control freakery was just as destructive and unhealthy and its something which has followed him around the clubs he has managed. To an extent I admired his single mindedness and through it we were successful to a point, but the downside was that it limited us to a functional organ that was drilled and focused but lacked the creativity to push us to the highest level. You would see him during the match furiously scribbling away on that notepad and you just knew that it would form the next series of dictats to players he rarely trusted to think for themselves and react to events on the pitch. These things are necessary at times and should always be part of a philosophy particularly when you are playing the like of Barcelona, but the game plan rarely changed and more often than not it formed a defence orientated mindset regardless of who we were playing. The one season we had a real chance of taking the title from the grasp of United was compromised by a failure to capitalize on an early advantage we had gained from a good start to the season and United's involvement in other competitions. That season Benitez learned belatedly to take the brakes off and it paid huge dividends with thumping victories against Villa, United and Real in successive matches, but by that time United had already caught up in the league, overhauled us and the rest is history. Benitez was a good manager throughout and a highly successful manager for the first three seasons, he had a huge amount to put up with off the pitch, but this shouldn't mask the fact that he had his own limitations which eventually stalled progress and everything unravelled in his last season coupled with the monstrous insanity of the ownership issue. There is a lot to genuinely thank him for and his genorosity to the Hillsborough Fund and love of the city speaks well of him as an individual, but there has already been too much sentiment at Liverpool and I would not personally see his return as a positive outcome - others will obviously disagree and thats the way of it