Rory Fitzgerald

I haven't seen a second of pre-season, except those pathetic clippings of Nunez. I never expected Nunez to start the season - it was only if he turned into an all-singing, all-dancing powerhouse in a few weeks would he command a starting place. In that, I mean that Jota is the starting striker on Day 1. We all debated the front line away at City in early April for the potential "decider" and at this stage, it was very difficult to leave Jota's goal on the bench and then there was a call on the left of either Diaz or Mane. It was only after that, did Mane command the #9 spot. Whilst he had played there for a few weeks earlier, it was when both Jota and Firmino were injured. The great thing about the #9 spot is that we had 2 coming into the season. Assuming Firmino stays fit, and Jota clicks into some decent form, then Nunez can be rotated in/out rather than having him as our only #9 and "needing" him to hit the ground now.

Losing 0-3 will show signs of improvement

This content is not viewable to guests.,This content is not viewable to guests.

When pre-season games were never on TV, that was the time of my life I would have watched them. Great times for paper print to report on it the next day. I would know more about a pre-season game in the 1990s from reading a newspaper 24 hours later than today's immediate multi-platform accessibility. So yeah, a fit squad emerging with 3pts away at Fulham will do.

I preferred the pre pre-season, it was a time when there was a void and the discussions were a random pic'n'mix. But now, the pre pre-season has focused attention on a single game and the downside is that my twitter experience is now doom scrolling. Lets get to the post pre-season, quickly.

I just watched this now. For those that didn't see it, Klopp was talking about being in his 7th season but the need to develop and constantly make changes and said "my favourite subject is talking about a new midfielder, we need a new midfielder" and Neil then followed up saying "Everyone loves talking about a new midfielder" and then you see that Klopp was being sarcastic about wanting to talk about midfielders. Klopp goes off on one talking why we need a new midfielder and was asking Neil why we needed a new midfielder but kept talking without "really" putting the question to Neil to let him answer. I think Neil handled it very well and Klopp seemed to realise that he was in a fans interview than dealing with an outside journalist and they both reversed out of that rabbit hole. Klopp did say that we have 4 CBs that if someone wanted to buy them, they'd need to be the Bank of England

I like the interview in terms being honest and it makes alot of sense. Thiago/Milner/Henderson/Thiago are better deeper than attacking Jones/Elliott/Carvalho need an opportunity and are better attacking than sitting deep Klopp is not wedded to any one way of playing and does try different things even within a 433 shape. So its not outside the realms of possibility to he does look to a 4-2-1-3 shape and put the older players in the deeper pivot and let the younger midfielders compete for the "10" role. Having 2 deeper players might also allow Trent to be more attacking and have Konate/Gomez compete for RCB as they have the qualities to cover balls into space.

Agree with 2nd part, not so much the 1st part. The only benefit to us agreeing a mutual termination is to save on that £6m, if we cant save that, there is no point cancelling. He's not getting £120k a week somewhere else, so 100% my base case would be to stay and collect. Yes, let the Agent sniff around and see if he can find a ridiculous deal. For example, imagine if Newcastle came up with £65k per week over 5 years to take him to 34, you'd imagine look at that £17m over 5 years and ask us to rip up his £6m with us. But that's just random numbers. But whether he stays or goes, he has a tough time to get on the 9-man bench for league games when we are fully fit. It will be difficult for Jones & Milner to even get on - and I wonder, where does AOC get game time next season ? Even in the League Cup, you hope the likes of Jones & Elliott are playing. Alisson TAA Konate VVD Robbo Henderson Fabinho Thiago Salah Nunez Diaz Kelleher Matip Gomez Tsimikas Keita Elliott Carvalho Jota Firmino Jones Milner Ox Ramsey

I think I am misunderstood on that point. His Agent can be told that if he can find a club this Summer and negotiate acceptable terms then Liverpool would agree to terminate the contract. I am not suggesting AOC loses out, but gets to agree a contact acceptable to him with a new club but also gets to play more next year. Liverpool then get £6m off the books. Is that right, I haven't seen that. Was there any info or reason given e.g. was there a loan fee or speculation of who paid wages - or - was there mention that Liverpool see him as a viable squad option and want him for playing reasons ?

I dont see AOC moving on this Summer. I think we'd happily let him go and get through the season with the players we have. Transfer fee: At wages of £6m (£120k/week), there is a call on whether he is worth £6m to the squad i.e. let him go free and save the wages. Player: AOC will turn 30 just after the end of his LFC contract. He is guaranteed £120/week next season and can then negotiate the next contract with a club that does not have to pay a transfer fee. Buyer: What would a buyer have to pay this Summer to get AOC away from Liverpool in terms of; (a) a transfer fee and (b) wages to compensate given AOC is on a guaranteed £6m for just next year alone Role: Also, what kind of player is AOC these days ? If a buyer is to come in and pay a transfer fee and give enough wages to get the agreement of the player - what role are you buying him for over the next 3-5 years ? He will be 30 soon. He is not the energetic attacking midfielder Liverpool bought. He is not a defensive midfielder, his passing is not good enough to play him as a CM. Last season: His last appearance for Liverpool was 30-March away at Forest in the FA Cup. His last minutes in the league was February against Norwich. There is a consideration to agree to terminate his contract and save £6m and let him get a new club if he can find one. But if not, where is his value to the squad for next season in a squad with Fabinho, Henderson, Thiago, Milner, Keita, Elliott, Jones, Carvalho. I don't see Ox making the bench next season even with the ability to pick 9 subs (1 GK and 8 outfield).

I think the 4-2-3-1 can be seen to stack up, mainly because of the running and legs of the midfield but also getting more from the young right side defenders. One of the problems with City at home last season that Klopp referenced was no pressure on the ball. We fell into that trap in the 1st half of the league game away at Arsenal also. Our central striker needs an extra body when pressing teams coming out and we send up one of the midfielders, which has tended to be Henderson. Can you save the legs of Thiago/Henderson by rotating them across a deeper 2-man midfield and then free up that 3rd spot to do something different with the youth of Elliott/Jones/Carvalho. More discipline at the base can also give more cover to allow Trent do something more (not sure what "more" means but find ways to get more out of his talent). So I always look at the 4-2-3-1 as something for the base of the team, rather than the top end. I think top end of the pitch can still operate a bit similar to a "three" but if you are getting more out of Trent on the right, maybe there are ways to get something different out of Salah. For me, the idea of a "9" in a 4-2-3-1 is that the team is set up to service the "9" and I don't see that yet. Nunez will compete with Firmino and Jota so we need the central player to effectively link with the wide players - and one of them is the best goalscorer in the league and our main source of goals next season. So in that sense, I think the front line still needs to find a way to operate similarly dependent on the way you want to evolve the players behind, and I think the age profile of the squad can be deployed something like this; - Trent (23) can evolve even more, but can we do it and still suit the team - Konate (23), Joe Gomez (25) available at RCB to use pace to cover Trent - Matip (30) shifts to LCB to cover VVD (30) and open the RCB spot to our younger CBs - The AM spot can be given to Elliott (19), Carvalho (19), Jones (21) - Fabinho is a natural DM (28) but you ask Henderson (32) and Thiago (31) to use their experience to see the game ahead of them and let Trent do something different with Konate/Gomez as some insurance at RCB and the midfield then use their experience to read the game but let the younger players "run" the game ahead of them.

I was wondering if he would get some game time as a sub this season given the 5 subs rule. Even with 9 subs that can be named, it looks difficult for him to make the bench. Assuming this is the XI, there is still some competition to make the bench Alisson TAA Konate VVD Robbo Henderson Fabinho Thiago Salah Nunez Diaz Kelleher Matip Gomez Tsimikas Keita Elliott Carvalho Jota Firmino Jones Milner Ox Ramsey Minamino

In terms of a question of TAA in a MF role in a 433 vs 4231, then I'd let his lungs & ability loose as an '8' in a 433, give him an area on the right (in general) and let him work box-to-box. The great thing is, TAA has levels to become an even more influential player. I am not sure what that is of course but I would be more certain that Klopp is thinking of next-levels than pegging him as a right back

In terms of drifting into those positions, I agree, I mentioned that on the previous page of the thread; "He started as a right-back (17-19), redefined what a right-back can do (19-22), last season we've seen him appear in more advanced roles (23), and you wonder if the 24+ version of Trent sees his role evolve even more". I know what you mean in terms of whether its good or not for the team. But what I am thinking is that Klopp and the management team see TAA as a talent that has so much potential, so there must be a way that we can develop in a way that TAA evolves to become even more central to the way we play given his ability to strike a ball with pace & precison .......... so I was only putting forward how I think other parts of our squad could also suit/fit a dynamic that sees TAA evolve his contribution.

My proprietary software needs some updating

I was thinking something along the lines of this when attacking. - Salah gets to drift more centrally to be more attacking - Fabinho covers right side and leaves Thiago left side - Younger CM floats but has much more of an "obligation" on the right given Salah will drift in (Diaz less likely). It looks a bit mad below but if you have Konate / Fabinho on that side, try to evolve something new with Trent, open a position for a younger CM to come through and maybe let Salah take a more central role. But in any event, I think the next evolution of the team very much has TAA's talents as being central (not literally !). [EDIT: I created that before we signed Darwin Nunez in case wondering why only Jota/Firmino upfront]

When Klopp thinks about the evolution of the team season-to-season, and as players change, I have to imagine that he is thinking of ways to get more & more from Trent's huge talents. He started as a right-back (17-19), redefined what a right-back can do (19-22), last season we've seen him appear in more advanced roles (23), and you wonder if the 24+ version of Trent sees his role evolve even more. How does that look like if keeps playing right back next season, give we dont have a viable right back alternative. Midfield: I wonder if the mix of midfielders sees us playing with two 6's from the experienced players (Fab, Henderson, Thiago, Milner as back up). In our midfield set up, we always need to send 1 of the CMs much further forward when the opposition have goal kicks or play very deep. That has been Henderson mostly but also Keita. I think with two experienced 6's, you can create that position for more energy/creativity and give it to a younger player across Jones, Elliott, Carvalho. RCB: Gomez and Konate are 2 young, strong, fast CBs. They have all the qualities to take some extra responsibility and cover a bit more ground. If you play two 6's which don't get pulled too far out of shape, then there is a set-up that sees Gomez/Konate using their pace and (willingly) get dragged to defend any dangerous balls to the right and let one of the 6's drop in behind as cover (hopefully not too many times in a game) + Trent Give a bit more freedom to Trent to have (even) more impact + CB Creates a set up that needs the pace of Konate/Gomez and show them the team is evolving to their talents + Midfield Less running for experienced (sometimes hit with injuries) players in the DM spots + AM Opens a role for a younger midfielder to get more games and with 5 subs, 2 of them can play per game

This content is not viewable to guests.,This content is not viewable to guests.

Salah is the main man next season - and as long as he doesn't have an injury then we can be confident of a good season Jota/Firmino were always competing for the No.9 Diaz thankfully is showing we can look to him to take on the LWF role, with Jota as an auxiliary if needed In that regard, the signing of Nunez means we have some breathing room as we can look to those players. However, when we get to June 2023 and we contemplate taking all of the goals/assists of Salah out of the team ..... you hope there is a massive signing in the pipeline - ideally like the way Diaz came in during January. But for Nunez, he is coming in with lots of competition for #9 which is good, so if he needs time, then we have options.

Yeah, you could see the older players being asked to play in that role. That might give someone like Elliott/Jones/Carvalho a bit more freedom to join an attack but compel them to run their a*** off to get back - and see how that goes. I said last year that I thought Salah might be primed for a central role as he gets to 30 in order to save his legs running the line - but I think that is less & less likely this season given how he called himself a winger - and - Klopp put Mane in there rather than trying Salah in there. I thought the "Klopp 4231 of Dec-18 & Dec-19" was something that might be evolved for a bit more for Salah. But there has been zero of this year to think that.

Really nice post mate in terms of thinking things through (but has the same paragraph style as The Athletic ) You are right about this being the next evolution of the team - but we have already decided a part of that which is Jota and Diaz. My big feel for the midfield is "energy" and "panache" - a bit like what we thought Oxlade Chamberlain could be when he came to us at 24, energy, drive, confidence. We have Elliott, Jones brining in Carvalho were looking at Tchouameni and apparently looking at Bellingham. So I think midfield is the next big transition of the team for Klopp. But after that, as you say, is Trent has developed under Klopp and he is a game-changing player. If you are talking about evolving our style to our players, then its him as the prime example. I think the main things being looked at are - energy & drive in midfield. As for attack, you look at Diaz & Jota and you can show some contrast rather than similarities (compared to when brought in Salah and Mane in terms of similarities). But in terms of midfield, it will (or should) be done in a manner that Henderson/Thiago are still big influences and let them become the influences that Milner was. However, I think midfield is the next big evolution as you have Gomez/Konate as players that (are young) can play higher. Trent is young. Jota/Diaz are young. There is an injection of energy in midfield to marry both ends of the pitch. Albeit some of that youth needs some of our current experienced players.

Yeah, that could also probably sum up alot of social media. But even our fans do it about our team. I saw one last night saying Thiago was going to cost us the Champions League because he got injured before the game and it was his fault. The level of nonsense is incredible. Shame its not "social" - and could be called "Behave completely differently on here compared to how you do in public"

We got him after the last CL Final defeat in 2018 without a whisper. It needs legs but its a midfield that got us this far - its not an anchor on the team holding it back but an area of the field that need natural evolution like the rest of the key areas - namely front 3.

Going into this game, I was hoping we'd have a lead going into half time, and definitely by 60mins. I think the Madrid team approach flips with a few changes and putting legs in midfield - Casemiro/Kroos off and Rodrygo/Camavinga on (Valverde dropped into midfield)

I have a certain amount of detachment too - but I am "into it" though not taking you too literally. Thought 1st ball was offside and I think you could toss a coin on the VAR interpretation of that goal. In the sense that if the linesman leaves his flag down, then they say "Meh, inconclusive, goal" I am guessing they backed their mate up on the line with his decision