Saithip

I think that's a tad unfair. Lucas played very well in many games and had a vastly superior season to, for example, England captain Gerrard, to name but one. He's a very good player in fact and gets tons of unfair stick while other higher profile players can put in zero effort, make mistakes, play like they couldn't be arsed and yet seem immune from criticism

Indeed - like signing the hopeless David Speedie and the staggeringly bad Jimmy Carter. Two of the worst players to wear the red shirt in my lifetime

We were dining on pretty thin gruel in the totally trophyless 7-year period under Shankly between the league wins of 1966 and 1973. I remember it very well

In fairness, Alonso was very average the season before and we couldn't give him away, even for as little as £14m. Even this season at Madrid he has been distinctly average and they would get nowhere near £30m if they sold him on. There's too much emphasis on Alonso's departure when considering last season. It's worth remembering that Alonso only started 27 of our league games in his last season and we didn't lose a single game of the 11 where he wasn't in the starting line-up

Please, please, please desist from using ridiculous Americanisms like "snicker". The word is "snigger". It's a good old traditional word so let's not start using stupid, meaningless, artificial alternatives

A 5' 6" short-a*** jouneyman too. Seems highly unlikely on just those grounds, never mind any other. Or perhaps he stands on a box?

Maybe you didn't see the West Ham game then. He was bombing forward all the time and was a constant attacking thread. See if it's repeated on LFC TV and you'll see what I mean

Kuyt Maxi Agger

You're wasted on here. You really should offer your searching insight on player abilities over on 6CM, where it's a requirement that you look the other way when Lucas plays well, but slag him off at all costs otherwise. It's great to see true supporters supporting one of our lads in the way you do. Well done!

He may have overstated the position but, in fairness, Lucas has been easily one of our best players this season and Kuyt is very much a big game player who season in, season out scores plenty of goals from a wide position and makes plenty of assists. Last season he scored as many league goals as Rooney and actually made more assists. This season he's yet again been scoring when it matters, providing assists and never giving less than 100%. He has indeed been a top, top signing. Unfortunately a lot of nutters on here always want to see him left out for inexplicable reasons, usually for players who usually fail to offer us anything tangible

I'm sorry but you're talking far too much sense. Are you on the right forum? Don't you realise what the agenda is here? Please keep up

On the bright side, at least it means we'll have a true Liverpool supporter in the studio - Murray himself - rather than Sky's anti-Liverpool bunch

Lucas Kuyt Agger

Scott Parker is completely average and West Ham is absolutely his level. He's basically no good. I saw comments here saying a) he's like Alonso and b) he's at the same level as Lucas. Both comments are complete and utter b******s and made me choke on my beer. I'll retract these views if and when I see a bidding war between top English clubs and/or top European clubs for his signature at the end of the season. The world's gone f***ing mad

So how did we remain unbeaten in every single league game Alonso didn't play in if he was "crucial to our success"? And how do you explain his terrible performances last season, like Middlesbrough away when, apart from being total s*** he very helpfully scored their first goal for them? I am presuming here that you have this coveted trait of something resembling a moderate understanding of the game, so I'd really like an explanation. Oh, and for your information, I've been watching the actual games since 1965

We played two defensive midfielders all last season with identical tactics as this season and ended up as top scorers. Unfortunately Gerrard's role at the centre of the attacking midfield three is absolutely pivotal as he's the link between Torres, the DMs and the wide players. As his form has been so woeful all season long - he hasn't actually played well in any game I can remember - the whole team suffers. The central attacking midfielder is such an important role in a 4-2-3-1 that we really suffer because we don't have anyone else to play in that position when Gerrard's injured or, as has been the case all this season, he's playing badly Alonso only started 27 of our 38 league games last season and we didn't lose a single league game that he didn't feature in. How did we manage that in those games if Alonso (just 3 assists out of 77 goals) was so crucial?

I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that most people can't be arsed to convince you otherwise

Your point about our needing to stop worrying about the opposition and let them worry about us sounds fine. However other managers do just that, hence Man U always, after having played a second striker in previous games (like Berbatov prior to Sunday's game), drop a striker, pack the midfield and play one man up front when playing Liverpool. After they scored, with half an hour left, they never again once remotely looked like scoring and sat deep to protect their lead, looking to try to do something on the break. Man U have done this repeatedly against us over the past few years. Even when they've played the likes of Shrek in the team, with a recognised centre-forward like Berbatov, Shrek has always played a withdrawn role on the left as part of a five-man midfield, hoping to absorb pressure and pinch a goal. This happened in two successive 1-0 wins for them at Anfield and a 0-0 draw (where the media of course blamed both teams for being "happy with a point" rather than commit the heresy of slagging them for a negative approach by not adopting an attacking formation). The same everyone-behind-the-ball-pack-the-midfield approach narrowly failed for them in the 1-0 (Crouch winner) FA Cup tie and failed in the last two seasons at Anfield in the league. A cursory look at the match facts in these games will show how they rarely have a shot on target and yet no mention is ever made of their typical cautious approach in games against Liverpool, as was the case after they put out a team with five across the middle and a lone striker (the sort of approach that some of our fans routinely slate Benitez for adopting at home) on Sunday How bizarre,given that he's not German - or Scouse for that matter (as we would pronounce the word in a very similar way). So we can we please them try not to use the same daft Manc-inspired b******s on this forum? Seems a good idea to me

I'm confused. Why do you write "fachts" when that would approximate to how a German might pronounce the word. Please explain

Agreed. Reina was a spectator for the most part. United had a lot of the ball in the second half but created no chances that I can recall apart from the one goal. In the first half they only had the penalty and the rebound as shots on target. In the second a couple of feeble efforts that were never going to go in and then the goal. They really are a predictable team - get it wide and cross it is the only way they play. Unfortunately it succeeded once. The fact that they rarely create much in open play against us makes losing to them even more annoying. Shrek yet again did very little against us and never remotely looked like adding to his lucky rebound from a free pot-shot from 12 yards. At the other end we squandered the best two chances of the half. That said, we didn't play well but they were pretty average too. One consolation is that Arsenal have an easy run-in, have Fabregas back in the team and are likely to drop fewer points than the scum, so I'm very hopeful they'll win the league rather than the Evil Empire. I've written off Chelsea already Anyway, roll on next season

He's been playing in the centre all season - badly - so he couldn't possibly be less effective on the right or left. And I'm assuming also that he'll be "furious" with Cappello for playing him on the left all the time for England

Agree with most of that, although for me Molby was a far superior player to Alonso. For one thing, he was a regular goalscorer, which Alonso wasn't and he made loads of assists, which Alonso didn't. He played further forward generally so perhaps a comparison isn't fair. I thought Molby's vision and all-round game, his tackling and the strength of his shots were all better than anything Alonso produced, excellent player though he was in his own right - and, of course, Molby did it season in and season out for a lot longer than Alonso did For the same reason, it's not really fair to compare Fabregas with Lucas. Fabregas plays much further forward, pretty much in the Gerrard role at Liverpool behind the main striker. A direct comparison with their respective goals and assists would be fair enough. Alonso only got 3 goals last season to Lucas's one, but I believe Lucas only started 12 league games compared with Alonso's 27 I believe, so he was hardly prolific either You're right about people seeing what they want to see with Lucas. I've read many posts saying that he gives away too many silly fouls. Yet before Sunday's game, he'd only committed 46 fouls in 25 starts and two short sub appearances. About two fouls a game on average for a defensive midfielder looks pretty decent to me, but I've no doubt people will be slagging him off for this all season long irrespective of how few fouls he actually does commit And of course Alonso wasn't exactly pacey, so I don't think it's a valid point to criticise Lucas for. A total lack of pace didn't do Molby any harm either for that matter

But very poor at defending set-pieces, as a poster pointed out, and was targetted because of it

I saw something similar to this somewhere else yesterday, possibly on this site. What I don't understand is why he's always singled out. The very nice pass you mention was actually a brilliant pass and if, say, Gerrard had done it, everyone would be raving about it. But here it's just a "very nice" pass. On another site, some joker actually criticised him for underhitting it. You couldn't make it up! Someone else said that it was his first killer ball since the Gerrard goal at Newcastle and remarked that he makes so few of such killer forward passes that lead to goals that it's easy to remember each one. However, try as I might, I can't remember his sidekick Mascherano making two such deadly through balls that led to goals in the same time period (I can't actually remember a single one), nor can I recall Gerrard doing more than perhaps the one that led to a Torres goal in the Anfield Road end last season (v Middlesbrough, Newcastle??), but even that was technically less difficult and was a diagonal ball into his path. Other than that, nothing. Maybe others can remember examples better than I can. Ditto Alonso last year. I remember him making a good first-time 10 yard pass to Torres at Sunderland away last season, but Torres still had everything to do and took it on to lash it in from about 25 yards, so although it was an assist and a very good pass, it was a lot simpler than the two Lucas examples I mentioned. Can anyone else remember another Alonso forward pass through ball last season that led to a goal? I can't. I'm not being contrary, I just can't remember any. But that's my point. Nobody ever criticises any other player for a lack of a killer through ball and yet Lucas, who has provided two such passes that everyone can remember, is singled out for not doing enough of it! Very odd indeed

Mascherano Lucas Reina